20Ft Sectional Ladder vs. Water Fed Pole vs danger

[jkim]

Guys I need help! I just went out and bought a 20ft sectional ladder but after talking to Window Resource sales, John Lee told me he no longer uses ladders because they are too dangerous. I am scared to death to now use a ladder to clean 2nd floor homes. But after using my 32ft Ettore Extension Pole, I was very good at squeegeeing but found it to be less than ideal. Some cleaners tell me you can clean with a 32ft pole just as good as being up and personal but I disagree. Maybe if you are cleaning well kept windows yes but for windows that are heavily soiled I have to say no way.

What about Water fed Poles? For windows that are heavily soiled I don’t think they will clean any better. I had to deal with windows that were so dirty, it took very heavy scrubbing with a scrim towel to get it clean. Do you all use water fed or ladders? How many that use a ladder will eventually fall off? Is it possible to use ladders for 20 years and never fall?

[Ben]

I wear a harness and tie off at top of a 32 and 40 ft ladder so both hands are free. Safety is #1.

[Infinity]

Hey [MENTION=11487]jkim[/MENTION], is there any way you would be able to shadow another window cleaner for a little while? I think that anyone thats new to the profession should try and get the chance to do so. It would help you to decide the direction in which you want to go with your company in regards to equipment, techniques, and so on.

Regarding the WFP vs Ladder debate, I think most here on the forum would say that wfp’s cannot entirely replace ladders in this profession. First time cleans, wood framed windows in poor shape, windows with storms, etc, will all present challenges to the wfp-only model. That being said, a wfp can greatly reduce your reliance on ladders, thus minimizing your risks.

As far as sectionals go- they can be a great tool, are safe when used properly, and are pretty convenient for maneuvering. But they do have a considerable learning curve (especially if you want to assemble them vertically). I used a set of sectionals for a good while when I was starting out, and I never really got used to them. I eventually bought a 17’ multi-ladder (similar to the little giant). They are a bit heavy, and not quite as convenient in some instances (like setting it up indoors for high ladder work). But I found the multiladder to be quite versatile and allowed me to tackle pretty much anything I came across in the two story homes I clean. Later I bought a used 28’ Louisville extension ladder, which reaches the three story work I do (commercial 3 story work will require something taller, like a 40’).

so to make my point short- unless you’re very selective about what jobs you do, you’re going to need ladders in this business. Try to find ones that fit the situations you’ll be dealing with, and learn how to maneuver and set them up safely (and make sure to get leg levelers!). Handling ladders is much more about balance and leverage, than it is about brute strength. I’m 5’9, 140 lbs, and I’ve handled a 40’ ladder all day before by myself (not fun, btw).

WFP will be a great investment, but don’t view it as a complete replacement for ladders. And while you’re still in your first year, doing a lot of first time cleans on neglacted windows, you might find it will be better to get practiced with the ladders, and save up for a fancy wfp next year

[Jayrr1]

Hey [MENTION=11487]jkim[/MENTION], is there any way you would be able to shadow another window cleaner for a little while? I think that anyone thats new to the profession should try and get the chance to do so. It would help you to decide the direction in which you want to go with your company in regards to equipment, techniques, and so on.

Regarding the WFP vs Ladder debate, I think most here on the forum would say that wfp’s cannot entirely replace ladders in this profession. First time cleans, wood framed windows in poor shape, windows with storms, etc, will all present challenges to the wfp-only model. That being said, a wfp can greatly reduce your reliance on ladders, thus minimizing your risks.

As far as sectionals go- they can be a great tool, are safe when used properly, and are pretty convenient for maneuvering. But they do have a considerable learning curve (especially if you want to assemble them vertically). I used a set of sectionals for a good while when I was starting out, and I never really got used to them. I eventually bought a 17’ multi-ladder (similar to the little giant). They are a bit heavy, and not quite as convenient in some instances (like setting it up indoors for high ladder work). But I found the multiladder to be quite versatile and allowed me to tackle pretty much anything I came across in the two story homes I clean. Later I bought a used 28’ Louisville extension ladder, which reaches the three story work I do (commercial 3 story work will require something taller, like a 40’).

so to make my point short- unless you’re very selective about what jobs you do, you’re going to need ladders in this business. Try to find ones that fit the situations you’ll be dealing with, and learn how to maneuver and set them up safely (and make sure to get leg levelers!). Handling ladders is much more about balance and leverage, than it is about brute strength. I’m 5’9, 140 lbs, and I’ve handled a 40’ ladder all day before by myself (not fun, btw).

WFP will be a great investment, but don’t view it as a complete replacement for ladders. And while you’re still in your first year, doing a lot of first time cleans on neglacted windows, you might find it will be better to get practiced with the ladders, and save up for a fancy wfp next year

Where can I learn to handle a ladder on my own?

[Jayrr1]

Guys I need help! I just went out and bought a 20ft sectional ladder but after talking to Window Resource sales, John Lee told me he no longer uses ladders because they are too dangerous. I am scared to death to now use a ladder to clean 2nd floor homes. But after using my 32ft Ettore Extension Pole, I was very good at squeegeeing but found it to be less than ideal. Some cleaners tell me you can clean with a 32ft pole just as good as being up and personal but I disagree. Maybe if you are cleaning well kept windows yes but for windows that are heavily soiled I have to say no way.

What about Water fed Poles? For windows that are heavily soiled I don’t think they will clean any better. I had to deal with windows that were so dirty, it took very heavy scrubbing with a scrim towel to get it clean. Do you all use water fed or ladders? How many that use a ladder will eventually fall off? Is it possible to use ladders for 20 years and never fall?

I am in the same exact boat

[jkim]

Hey [MENTION=11487]jkim[/MENTION], is there any way you would be able to shadow another window cleaner for a little while? I think that anyone thats new to the profession should try and get the chance to do so. It would help you to decide the direction in which you want to go with your company in regards to equipment, techniques, and so on.

Regarding the WFP vs Ladder debate, I think most here on the forum would say that wfp’s cannot entirely replace ladders in this profession. First time cleans, wood framed windows in poor shape, windows with storms, etc, will all present challenges to the wfp-only model. That being said, a wfp can greatly reduce your reliance on ladders, thus minimizing your risks.

As far as sectionals go- they can be a great tool, are safe when used properly, and are pretty convenient for maneuvering. But they do have a considerable learning curve (especially if you want to assemble them vertically). I used a set of sectionals for a good while when I was starting out, and I never really got used to them. I eventually bought a 17’ multi-ladder (similar to the little giant). They are a bit heavy, and not quite as convenient in some instances (like setting it up indoors for high ladder work). But I found the multiladder to be quite versatile and allowed me to tackle pretty much anything I came across in the two story homes I clean. Later I bought a used 28’ Louisville extension ladder, which reaches the three story work I do (commercial 3 story work will require something taller, like a 40’).

so to make my point short- unless you’re very selective about what jobs you do, you’re going to need ladders in this business. Try to find ones that fit the situations you’ll be dealing with, and learn how to maneuver and set them up safely (and make sure to get leg levelers!). Handling ladders is much more about balance and leverage, than it is about brute strength. I’m 5’9, 140 lbs, and I’ve handled a 40’ ladder all day before by myself (not fun, btw).

WFP will be a great investment, but don’t view it as a complete replacement for ladders. And while you’re still in your first year, doing a lot of first time cleans on neglacted windows, you might find it will be better to get practiced with the ladders, and save up for a fancy wfp next year

Hey I really appreciate the great advice! I was reluctant to buy sectional ladders thinking WFP is the best way to go, but do realize ladders will give me the best chance to get window really clean. Please tell me if you agree, windows that are heavily soiled, WFP will not work too well? I bought a 6 foot base, a 6 foot middle and a 8ft top. I am wondering if I was better off getting I think 4 sections that are 6 feet for a total of 24 foot? THe setup I got now is 20 ft

[Infinity]

Where can I learn to handle a ladder on my own?

Google or youtube should yield some good info. Also, if you have any friends in construction trades, such as roofing- they’d probably be willing to give you some tips.

[Ben]

@Jayrr1

Where can I learn to handle a ladder on my own?

40 ft ladder work - YouTube and [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrrlUuM36Hg]one man extension ladder throw - YouTube and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFs9oRd4CG4

[dfw2020wc]

At each connection point you loose 1 foot due to overlap on sectionals. So 6’ base, 6’ middle, 6’ middle and a 6’ top piece although you may think 24’ is really 21’ due to 3 overlaps. Your 6’ base, 6’ middle and 8’ top is 18’ due to 2 overlaps.

[Infinity]

Hey I really appreciate the great advice! I was reluctant to buy sectional ladders thinking WFP is the best way to go, but do realize ladders will give me the best chance to get window really clean. Please tell me if you agree, windows that are heavily soiled, WFP will not work too well? I bought a 6 foot base, a 6 foot middle and a 8ft top. I am wondering if I was better off getting I think 4 sections that are 6 feet for a total of 24 foot? THe setup I got now is 20 ft

I can’t tell you what to do, but if it were me, and the order hadn’t shipped yet, I’d be tempted to cancel and get a cheaper ladder (or 3). If you do stick with the sectionals, I think that going with all 6’ sections might be more manageable (you can shoulder all the sections at once, and also get through doorways easier).

One situation that you might run into difficulty with sectionals, is cleaning the inside of high skylights. You don’t have fine control over the height of the ladder.

[jkim]

I can’t tell you what to do, but if it were me, and the order hadn’t shipped yet, I’d be tempted to cancel and get a cheaper ladder (or 3). If you do stick with the sectionals, I think that going with all 6’ sections might be more manageable (you can shoulder all the sections at once, and also get through doorways easier).

One situation that you might run into difficulty with sectionals, is cleaning the inside of high skylights. You don’t have fine control over the height of the ladder.

I think this config would prevent me from reaching the 2nd floor. Just how many feet do you really need to do 2nd story windows?

[jkim]

I can’t tell you what to do, but if it were me, and the order hadn’t shipped yet, I’d be tempted to cancel and get a cheaper ladder (or 3). If you do stick with the sectionals, I think that going with all 6’ sections might be more manageable (you can shoulder all the sections at once, and also get through doorways easier).

One situation that you might run into difficulty with sectionals, is cleaning the inside of high skylights. You don’t have fine control over the height of the ladder.

I am afraid this configuration sould not be high enough to reach 2nd floors. How many feet do you need to reach most 2nd stories?

[Ben]

I think this config would prevent me from reaching the 2nd floor. Just how many feet do you really need to do 2nd story windows?

At least a 25 foot for residential and 35 foot for commercial. There are differences in floor to ceiling height.

[Matthew]

I am scared to death to now use a ladder to clean 2nd floor homes.

… No need to be scared, just be careful. Ladders are not unsafe, but people do stupid things.
As for the safety of WFP, you can’t fall off it but there have been several reports of people
getting electrocuted.

What about Water fed Poles? For windows that are heavily soiled I don’t think they will clean any better.

… They will clean MUCH better than a mop and squeegee on the end of a 32 foot pole.

I had to deal with windows that were so dirty, it took very heavy scrubbing with a scrim towel to get it clean.

… You’d have an easier time using the right tool for the job. Scrims aren’t made for scrubbing.

Do you all use water fed or ladders? How many that use a ladder will eventually fall off? Is it possible to use ladders for 20 years and never fall?

… Is it possible to walk and never fall down? I use ladders and WFP.

[anon61938349]

remember the golden rule 4:1 , that is for every 4 feet up the wall the ladder should be 1 foot away . its easy to pitch your ladder further out than the golden rule but then you are asking for it to slip out on you. never do it ! in my experience it takes 6 months to a year to get confident on ladders and theres no happy way to learn that quickly.
hopefully as you are new to the biz your workload isnt high ,so you will slowly slowly learn the skill/ risks as the work build up. oh, another thing-wear the grippy sole shoes,nothing with a hard sole

[Majestic66]

[QUOTE=jkim;233794]Hey I really appreciate the great advice! I was reluctant to buy sectional ladders thinking WFP is the best way to go, but do realize ladders will give me the best chance to get window really clean. Please tell me if you agree, windows that are heavily soiled, WFP will not work too well? I bought a 6 foot base, a 6 foot middle and a 8ft top. I am wondering if I was better off getting I think 4 sections that are 6 feet for a total of 24 foot? THe setup I got now is 20 ft[/QUOT
High-Rise Window Cleaning : Cleaning High-Rise Windows: Sectional Ladders - YouTube if its not to late get 4 6’ sections there only dangerous if you work like that guy in the video on the extenson ladder. Alwys keep 3 pionts of contact and you want to be a window cleaner not a fireman right no need to through ladders around like
tthat.

[jkim]

[quote="“Majestic66,post:16,topic:23346”]

@jkim

Hey I really appreciate the great advice! I was reluctant to buy sectional ladders thinking WFP is the best way to go, but do realize ladders will give me the best chance to get window really clean. Please tell me if you agree, windows that are heavily soiled, WFP will not work too well? I bought a 6 foot base, a 6 foot middle and a 8ft top. I am wondering if I was better off getting I think 4 sections that are 6 feet for a total of 24 foot? THe setup I got now is 20 ft[/QUOT
High-Rise Window Cleaning : Cleaning High-Rise Windows: Sectional Ladders - YouTube if its not to late get 4 6’ sections there only dangerous if you work like that guy in the video on the extenson ladder. Alwys keep 3 pionts of contact and you want to be a window cleaner not a fireman right no need to through ladders around like
tthat.

I don’t know why some are suggesting four 6 foot ladders. It is more costly doing that. I could care less about manuverability inside home. It is just one piece.

[JfromtheD]

I don’t know why some are suggesting four 6 foot ladders. It is more costly doing that. I could care less about manuverability inside home. It is just one piece.

You are receiving solid advice.
But go ahead and ignore it, like it sounds like you’re going to do, anyway.

[michaelmole]

I don’t know why some are suggesting four 6 foot ladders. It is more costly doing that. I could care less about manuverability inside home. It is just one piece.

Do you think it’s cuz those folks are trying to screw you? Oh brother. I wonder if they’re suggesting that because there are things that you (being a self-confessed rookie) don’t know about?

[Lsmain]

this thread is starting to give me a headache…