An Open Letter to the Part Timers

Okay, I get it…You stumbled across the business of window cleaning or gutter cleaning, and thought to yourself “Wow, what a great way to make some side income.” So, in a depressed economy, you decide to keep your comfy 40+ hr work week, favorable benefits, and keep building up your 401k.

And on the weekends, you decide for fun to come along and underbid me. Me being the guy who has now invested his life into his business. Funny how when that commercial gig received three quotes, the 1st came in at $680, mine came in at $579, and yours was a whopping $250 bucks. I believe your math is wrong somewhere. Oh no wait, you don’t have any company vehicles to maintain, or taxes to pay. Uniform??? Who needs that? I heard you can get free biz cards at Vista Print- oh, I see you already have those. Sure, sure, you can borrow your buddy’s, uncle’s, boss’s 40’ ladder for that gig. I mean I know you mean well, trying to make an extra buck and all…but your killing the business. And quite frankly your stealing food from my (potential) plate. I don’t mind friendly competition, but you have to be just that - competition. Let’s compete for the business, not just give it away.

Do all of us (legit) business owners a favor, and get in or get out. Get real or get lost. Get serious or get bent. Get the idea???

If you can’t commit to the long haul, then why bother? Why play on both sides of the fence? Why not let the neighbor manage his side?

But you seemingly lack the ability to think past your own nose. As long as you can make money, who cares if you kill the local industry price wise right? I try to bid, work, and operate competitively. My customers can appreciate that, and they can appreciate that the next time they call my phone number, it won’t be disconnected, or have that annoying ring back music.


Capitalism is what it is. Competition is a component, and although it sucks to be the one that gets beat it’s crucial it exists.

Besides, you just named all the reasons you should be chosen over lowballers anyway. Ffff em, they won’t make anywhere near what you do an hour… and that “great” steady paycheck they already have has a limit, unlike ours.

You win some, you lose some. From the posts I’ve read from you it seems like you’ve done pretty damn well. Don’t sweat it :cool:

i couldnt agree more, i bid a house around 400 last week and they said the last guy did it for 200 and he was there for 8 hours. $25 an hour, bustin balls

While my post is somewhat targeted at lowballers, it is more so targeted at those who don’t have “skin in the game”. Rather, they are just here for the ride, not the climb. Trust me, I don’t sweat the bucket bobs or lowball joes, let them chase the same dollar. But at the same time, these people have an eery way of distorting pricing. Sort of like the illegal alien who will work for dirt cheap, but then send their money back home, and after they have soaked our jobs, tax dollars, and welfare - they head back home too. These people are blood sucking leeches who do nothing to benefit our economy.

Oh well…

I tell these types of people to call their last guy then. Most of them are pretty shocked, and end up telling me how this guy is no longer in business. My response - I wonder why he’s out of business…

I’d say the folks who drive by the home improvement store parking lots looking to hire illegal immigrants for dirt cheap are the blood suckers. The workers don’t set the price. Our economy still gains through their hard work and productivity – at jobs fat Americans snub their noses at.

That guy who lowballed that commercial job is really only delaying your winning the bid if you keep communication open. We know the weaknesses of the type you descibed…bad quality, no experience, unsafe, no uniform, usually no insurance, long turnovers…
I agree man, I hate it too, but I have been able to use their weaknesses to make my company look good without talking bad about them.
When you loose to these guys, keep the clients on a seperate list so you can follow up. I am sure you are already asking when they want the work done, so sometime after the work is done give them a call or send a well crafted letter or info pack. You still may win these bids afterall.

I’d say the blood suckers are the traitorous officials in government who refuse to enforce the laws that have already been passed and secure our borders, and deport all of these criminals.
Americans are not snubbing their noses at ‘these’ jobs, that just unfounded propaganda. They just are not willing to do it for $2.00 an hour.

Please provide proof that those people illegally employing day-labor are only paying $2.00 per hour.

I know at least three people not looking for work because all they find available is at minimum wage.

I think maybe this is getting into politics…but really if the government wanted to shut down the borders and really enforce it, they can. In 1985 when that DEA agent Enrique “Kiki” Camarena Salazar was murdered by that drug kingpin, the borders were practically shut down ( here is the proof. ). So, this is proof that it could be done if they wanted it to be done.
Without the illegal work force, think about how much it would cost to eat at a resturaunt, or stay at a hotel, or the cost to buy vegetables and fruit? Like it or not, it is almost as if it is an integral part of the economy.
Is it really criminal to cross a border because your family is so poor they can’t afford to eat or see a doctor? If I was in that situation, I would do just about anything I could to keep my family safe and alive.
So what is the real answer here? Every government is corrupt and seeks its own agenda.

I think maybe in our industry, we HAVE to raise the bar when it comes to professionalism…so we are recognized and awarded the work because of it.

I ain’t trying to start an internet fight, just giving my opinion.

Please provide proof that Americans are fat and snubbing jobs. I know at least three people who would gladly take a job that some criminal has that is lower than minimum wage.

That is the point I am trying to make, the government could do it, and has a legal mandate to do it, they just refuse. That is why I called them traitorous they wer supposed to represent the people, but they end up caring about only their own agenda.

If my family was so poor they could not eat or see a doctor, I also would probably do anything I could, including stealing, but that would not make the stealing legal, it would make me a criminal. There are also many people in that same situation who went through everything legally and are now here trying to improve their family.

I did not think you were starting a fight, I am not upset by any of your comments, so just keep them coming. :slight_smile:

I hear the pain/hurt/frustration/ and anger in your post. I’m sorry you’re going through this, however you’ve got to look at the bright side. You’re in business for yourself, you’re successful and from what it sounds like, doing the right things, making a difference, playing the game by the rules, and taking care of your customers. With that said, these “low ballers” really shouldn’t be on the radar. Giving clients the facts, and talking up the benefits of what you do, who you are and why you beleive your sevice would be beneficial for them to use is all you can do… not to mention throw in a great attitude and a smile :slight_smile: There are people out there that just want the “cheapest” and that’s not what you offer, so you will end up losing those customers, but maybe this is a sign, a way in which you can seperate yourself and GROW! Look at the up side of these trials, and persevere.

James 1 2:3 Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, becasue you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance.

Chalk it up to growth and testing! You’ll have a great week, I’m sure of it.

God bless

[URL=""]"Employees of Perdue Farms Inc. are accused in a class-action lawsuit of knowingly hiring illegal immigrants.

The plaintiffs allege that Perdue has conspired to hire large numbers of illegal immigrants, driving down wages of legal workers below market levels.

The complaint was filed in federal court in Alabama."

[URL=""]"The government’s steady retreat from workplace enforcement in the 20 years since it became illegal to hire undocumented workers is the result of fierce political pressure from business lobbies, immigrant rights groups and members of Congress, according to law enforcement veterans. Punishing employers also was de-emphasized as the government recognized that it lacks the tools to do the job well, and as the Department of Homeland Security shifted resources to combat terrorism.

The administration says it is learning from past failures, and switching to a strategy of building more criminal cases, instead of relying on ineffective administrative fines or pinprick raids against individual businesses by outnumbered agents."

“The biggest incentive for illegal aliens to come to the United States is to find work. If there are no employers willing to hire the illegal aliens, then the flood of illegal aliens will subside.”

“The number of illegal, unauthorized immigrant workers in the farm labor supply is hotly debated. Estimates range from 25% to over 50%. Regardless of the estimate used, the number is substantial.”

[URL=“Hiring illegal aliens could result in spilt milk Bill would penalize businesses hiring illegals”], Twin Falls, ID:
"Rep. Bert Stevenson, R-Rupert, said he understands the dairy industry’s challenge, adding that the broader issue is having a work force that meets industry needs.

“It isn’t that people are out there wanting to hire illegal aliens,” said Stevenson, a member of the House State Affairs Committee.

Rep. Raul Labrador, R-Eagle, also a co-sponsor of the legislation, stressed that the violation has to be done knowingly by the employer to warrant citation, noting that federal law already requires employers to obtain identification from the employee in question within three days."

“”[B]I think we need to take a baby step toward penalties on employers," said Sen. Wayne Niederhauser, a Sandy Republican[/B] who favors mandating E-Verify’s use. “It’s just egregious at this point.”"

“Since 2008, Arpaio and Maricopa County Attorney Andrew Thomas have been using a state employer sanctions law coupled with identity theft statutes to arrest undocumented workers. His agency has conducted 31 investigations that resulted in the arrest of 342 workers. Three companies have been charged with civil complains for knowingly hiring undocumented laborers.”

That sure is alot of alleging and thinking, but not a lot of proof.

I am not sure what your point with the bold fonts were; whether you did that or if they were just a part of the links.

Do you have any proof that person that gave the bid for $250 is a part-time weekend window warrior? or a leech on society, or a documented or
un-documented worker etc…

Could it be a legit firm in your area thats only focus is to get large quantities of jobs and lower pay (a la Wal-mart style, Lets ROLLBACK prices and smash the competition)

It looks like the potential customer was looking for the lowest price, so in fact you and the higher bid did not have a chance.
If the potential customer did not question the price difference, and potential quality difference, (get what you payed for type of thing). I would not give it a second thought.

I use to get down on myself when I would drop off a bid and not hear back from a potential customer, but they have the bid they know my price if I get the job cool if not oh well. If it is meant to be it is meant to be what ever the outcome. They are my customer while I am doing the job and after payment, if they are not repeat customers because of something that I did then that is my problem. It would be great if every bid turned into a customer for life, but that is not reality.:slight_smile:

People still eat cheesburgers at steakhouses, even when ther is a double cheesburger for a buck…Nature of the beast…it still sucks!

Well aside from the political direction this is going, my real frsutration is part timers. Yes I do know that this guy does the work on the side, all while working at an insurance company (and yet the government tells us how filthy rich the ins. co’s are).

And let’s call a spade a spade here. A friend of mine once asked me - “What sets you apart from other window cleaning companies?” “What do you offer that they don’t?”

My answer was simple - that there really is no difference. From a quality standpoint, yes, I would like to think that my quality is far superior, but the reality is I do not know that for sure. What a bucket joe, and what a full fledged business can offer their customer is almost the same. Clean windows. Unless you are giving your customers an actual tangible item with their service, then all wc’ers end result is the same. Clean windows. Because a professional window cleaner can identify a dirty or poorly cleaned window, a regular customer will not have a trained eye for it. So poor quality in a customers view, may be satisfactory because they know none other.

Now what you can do is add more VALUE to the experience. You can strive for more satisfaction and ease of use. At the end of the day, if the window is perceived by the customer as “clean”, well tehn we are all in the same boat.

Now I could care less about this guy, but for some reason in commercial work - this guy always exists. Whether he is a insurance guy, lawyer to be, sales rep, whatever…
This is why I hate commercial. And mind you, I intentionally bid this low, I intended to be the lowballer myself (well I meant to position myself within close range of any lowballers). But I have yet to find a commecial account in ANY service industry where price wasn’t KING. And for that reason, these part timers…suck. Nonetheless, I don’t lose sleep over it, and neither should you. Focus energy where it pays off.

And by the way…our country is plagued by illegal, low wage workers stealing perfectly good jobs from low income workers. Our society is plagued with rich or stingy bastards that knowingly hire these people. Unfortunately the middle class gets bitten twice - once by job losses, and twice by the additional expenses in taxes & healthcare that it takes to fund these illegals.

Here’s my solution: Gather up illegal aliens and those in prison, have them start building a wall along our borders. Illegals on the south side, prisoners on the north. After the wall is built, pay the illegals, pay the prisoners, and forget to build a door. Truck the prisoners back to prison, where you kindly deduct their past living expenses from their pay. Sounds like a great plan to me.

Well, I will speak from the voice of experience, that its not that easy. My wife is from another country, and since we got married we have been trying to make her a legal resident of the u.s. She is not allowed in, so she lives in her country and since she’s my wife I live in that country too. We have been in the process for 4 years, and we were denied. The reason was that I need to justify having her be able to be a legal resident. They said, without the legal jargon, basically if nobody in my immediate family is not deathly ill, and even if they were- I would need to prove how her comming to the U.S. is needed and esential by that sick or dying family member. There are about 2 other reasons that would make them say yes, but I don’t qualify. Since 911 its been next to impossible to get an approval. We appealed the decision, and they just shot us down again in February, stating that just because I am a U.S. citizen, dont mean she can be too. We can apply again in 10 years. I’m 38 years old, and will be 48 when we can apply again…and it takes 3 years or more to get a response not to mention the 8 grand it costs for all the fees, examinations etc…

We have made it work. It just is not as easy as filling out some paperwork and you get rubber stamped.

I can’t speak for the majority but as I think about the “stealing” aspect of what we were talking about, they can do that where they are from. In fact, there is alot of money to be made by being a criminal in just about every country. Personally, if the man came accross to get a job…I aint gonna knock him. That don’t mean I will hire him either…but there are those who will give them work.

On the other side of the coin tho, not everyone who comes accross illegally is in desperate situations either. Many see the U.S. as a land of opportunity that if you got half a brain you can make some serious coin. I knew a man who ran his own stone countertop and flooring business WITHOUT a lisence, and was illegal on top of it and made 200 grand a year PROFIT. Now if he was a window cleaner, I think I might be on the phone…

I appreciate your voice of experience, and I know it is hard to go through all the legal channels, which is why I have great respect for you and others who do go through it. I have a friend who own a construction company who has several legal immigrants working for him, those men are some of the hardest working people I know. At the end of the day they leave his work-site, and go work another job and sometimes a third one on the weekends, not to mention all the work they put in trying to learn English.

In my opinion all the illegals are probably making in harder and more difficult for you to do it the right way.