What is the waiver going to say that will cover you when every organization and manufacture tells you its a no no, I can’t see how it would negate your responsibility. Personally I would just turn the job down if it were in such a bad state. Let some other mug replace thousands of dollars worth of glass.
THAT’S where I go with things… flat out, offer to create a separate invoice.
“so you can recoup your money spent, from those who should have taken the time to make this a non issue.”
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There is another way around this problem. Check out this post in the Glass Smart blog.
Then scroll down to WindOCoat Protection Against Scratches. And watch the videos.
The idea is to coat the window maybe even before it goes into storage. Clean and protect. Then when the time is right just peal off everything! I will be writing more about this new technology and making 1 to 2 minute videos you can use to educate the builders. The videos are going to be really interesting, educational, and quick!
Henry
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Can’t access that for some reason.
I have started offering a strippable coating to builders, unfortunately the product is quite expensive over here, I read a post that you guys in the USA can pick it up for $31/gallon.
Just paint it on and when the construction is complete peel it off.
WindOCoat Protection against Scratches
Imagine a product that can be applied to windows BEFORE the construction begins. The glass is first cleaned, then the liquid product is brushed, rolled, or sprayed on. In a short time it dries to a film. Now concrete, silicone caulk, stucco, paint, stain, etc. can get on the window. When it comes time to clean the window all you simply do is peal off the film in one sheet taking with it all construction debris. The window is now totally clean. No need to reclean it because it is clean. Well this product already exists. And it is called WindOCoat.
If you are interested in trying out a sample just use this contact information below and always use the code GlassSmart618 to get a free sample. Although there will be a small charge for shipping.
General Chemical
12336 Emerson Drive
Brighton, MI 48116
855-475-5600
[email protected]
Code for Free Samples GlassSmart618
Once you have tested WindOCoat please write about it on every social media platform for the window cleaning industry. Most of all talk about it right here on the WCR Forum.
I have copy pasted the article here if the link to the blog doesn’t work. Hopefully it does. I think our posts crossed when I was fixing my post.
Henry
Please understand before reading my next statement that i take multiple steps to make sure i am very careful as i want to be known for my quality, not for hiding behind a waiver. But, If the person knows, and signs that they understand that the procedures used have the possibility of scratching the glass and they agree the window cleaner will not be held responsible then I dont see how they could be. The builders, at least in my area as i mentioned, have no interest in paying the proper rate for a professional. And the scratches i got were from removing concrete, not silicone or paint, and some of the peices were about the size of a dime. I did really take my time, much more than normal, but i still got them. The builder was very happy with my work, and told me so multiple times. The way i see it, concrete has sand, which is the same hardness as the glass so even if you use chemicals to turn it to sludge and then wipe it off with a cloth, there is the possibility that it will scratch. These are builders of 500k+ homes, some of the nicest in my area, and they dont want to pay for my rates, so i doubt they would pay for them if they were 2- 3x more than now. If the windows just had silicon and dust, i could see it working to not use a razor. Does anyone have a 100% scratch proof way to remove concrete?
Ps, i usually avoid this kind of work as it is low paying and annoying, but i still do my best to turn out the best results if i do take some on.
That was the first question I had when reading the bulletin. Why do you get the ‘sandpaper’ feeling on your blade and end up with scratches afterward?
VERY interesting Henry, i will be passing that on! May result in some good work, but likely i will just pass it on so the builder can use it. Thanks!
I am going to start doing one minute videos too that we can show the builders off our phones as we are talking to them. I want to demonstrate the product. Also how rough surfaces scratch easier. There is another product that when applied correctly will guard bare glass against scratches. Great for mirrors and railing glass. I also know what solvents are the best for softening fully cured silicone caulk. And what safe compositional abrasives to mix with them for speedier removal. Working on my own youtube channel for these videos.
Right now I am working on the next AWC article for “From the Lab to the Field” featuring a simplified explanation of the information that began this thread.
I am loving this discussion. Thank you too!
Henry
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Oh yeah. If anyone can make it to the 84 Diner in Fishkill NY on March 22nd at 1 pm I will be demonstrating WindOCoat. Also Nanovations USA NG1010 and how to “scratch proof” glass. Plus a few other things that will fascinate you. The future really is in products. Are you manufacturers watching? I know you are.
Has anyone looked at my blog lately. I have about 23 Product Manufacturers linked in the left column that were not there before. I will be writing about these manufacturers in the blog. But am working on something really special right now. That will totally change your business.
Henry
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To partly answer that question Dan it is true that the heat treatment process of soda lime glass changes the atomic structure of the near surface. And that change also affects the mechanochemical surface properties. Ask any glazier. This is known info. But keep posted. There is a ton more new information coming out from the IWCA Glass Committee.
Henry
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The problem lies is when you do not inform the customer that there are other methods that you could use however they are much more labour intensive and have to charged accordingly and you don’t really want to do it that way is its not enjoyable.
If it were brought in front of a court the opposition would just need to bring up the guidelines from the glass manufacture, then the guidelines from GANA and IWCA after that point you lose.
Its not up to the customer to know how to do your job and all the relevant rules and regulation, and latest acceptable methods for cleaning glass.
There are several products available to remove concrete, the way these work is to break the bonds of the concrete you can spray it on and rinse of off with a garden hose no agitation required therefor no chance to scratch.
I have not used a scraper on tempered glass in a very long time, and much of the interior of new glass here is exposed low E coated so its even more of a nightmare as no metal whatsoever can come into contact with it not even steel wool.
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I’d say you’re right on that one @Chargingsnail
There really isn’t anything thats 100%.
I’ve seen steel wool scratch glass! (Used correctly of course)
Someone mentioned there is a difference between faint scratch’s and gouges. It’s still a scratch. “better than it was” shouldn’t be the answer here.
So, until there is an approved method to removing debris off of the glass what it comes down to (if you want to remove yourself from being liable) is following the manufacturers approved cleaning methods.
When the builders don’t protect the windows, let THEM give you the answer as to how to get it off. They should be the one ultimately responsible for making sure you can do your job. Nothing wrong with that.
Like @anon46335951 mentioned, charge accordingly.
Everything changes, eventually we’ll get to the bottom of this and its really not that big of a deal. Its just a change.
I still haven’t seen any links with the methods used to come up with the new information tho. Whatever the case may be even if it is a bunch of boo boo, its time to adapt I believe.
Since this is all public, all the builders will know and be updated on this as well. I for one don’t want to get to a job walk and when they ask how I plan to get it done, tell em i’m slinging a blade no matter what anybody says. I doubt anyone would hire me if that happened.
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http://www.easycleansolutions.com.au/product.php?pid=1
is what I have used for many years to remove conctrete and alike
http://www.oateslaboratories.com/Category/citrus-resources/degreasers-and-spotters/orange-solv
is what i use for most things.
is what i use for large paint over spray
to lightly push of the softened paint or sometimes I just use my plastic business card
There are very many alternatives to scraping and these days the chemicals generally have non toxic alternatives that are safe to use indoors and safe with seals.
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This is a 10 year old article but pretty clearly explains what we deal with in today’s glass.
Note that on page two it was proposed to add to the corner stamp information of NOT to use a scraper relieving the manufacturer of responsibility.
Scrapers and scratches
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Sounds like GANA regurgitated propaganda. "Hey we didn’t send out any faulty glass, it’s just … (fill in the blank with whatever BS you can come up with).
One side of a piece of glass feels like butter with a razor, can’t scratch it. The other sounds like sand-paper as you run your razor across it. What is the reason for this? The article doesn’t even really attempt to give an answer.
Manufacturers producing an inferior product and still trying to cover their asses.
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@thorSG1, great mention of builders ensuring that they are responsible in protecting the glass from unnecessary debris. It is obvious that some debris will present but easily controllable.
This is part of educating them. Every builder/construction company I do work for has the 1st project for me to assist them with proper protection of glass. If they decide its up to me to remove the neglect of all contractors it is then my choice to not provide my services any longer.
If they dont care im not going to pick up the slack.
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sounds like tempered glass scratches with a razor blade WHATEVER THE CAUSE. then don’t use razors! how is it propaganda, the glass scratches with razors, so do something else
GANA doesn’t want its members to be responsible for selling razor sensitive
glass. Which is due to a poorly maintained manufacturing processes.
Razoring is the easiest and fastest way to remove normal debris from
glass. That’s why we don’t want that possibility to go away.
The possibility has already gone away. The glass manufacturing industry sets the standard. Using solvents to loosen spot removal of debris then judiciously using a clean razor for spot removal of debris if needed. If your process takes a little more time, then figure that into your scheduling.
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