I have to say it: Spiderman! He has the best one-liners for a hero who does just that. I love Batman too, but Spiderman is where the funny’s at (comic book version, not the movies).
If you look at the 3rd bay from the right, furthest left window of the bay (under the “E” in Energy)
you will see the very first “high rise” window I ever cleaned.
I think this was about 1990-ish?
The ground looked like a f-ing MAP, it felt so high.
Training: “this button moves you UP, and this one DOWN… good luck!”
You and guys like you have my respect more than astronauts or Navy Seals etc. It all hinges on rope, line, cable and you.
[MENTION=1736]JfromtheD[/MENTION]
So, as I see it:
- Learn how to clean glass.
- Start on the ground, up to 3 floors using ladders.
Capital cost - ~$1500
- Obtain training and equipment for mid-rise work for myself and at least one employee.
- Maintain the low rise work to train new employees on glass cleaning before taking them to the ropes.
Capital cost - ~$10,000
- Move on to high rise work…
- Obtain whatever training, equipment and licencing needed for myself and the required number of employees, while maintaining the low and mid rise work.
Capital cost - ~$20,000
Thanks again for all the replies.
Isn’t that the appeal? In rock climbing, bungee jumping or skydiving, you’re paying to get your kicks. With high-rise cleaning, it’s the other way around - you get paid to have fun.
Eh. My advice is terrible when it comes to this.
At that time, there was no "plan."
You were just a window cleaner, and if ‘So&SO’ had work, that’s where you went.
It was more ‘natural progression’/lessons learned, for ME.
ahhhhhh yesss… 75 and grand river.
funny that even when the windows are clean it still just looks… “brown”
Actually, no, capital is not all you need to break into any business, I saw some figures being thrown around by a guy (who is currently out of business according to his latest post) of 45k
If you don’t know what you’re doing, you’ll blow right through that 45k and have all that nice new equipment up on craigslist within 6 months guaranteed. and i’ll buy it from you…
If you have enough capital to hire a full time guy with industry knowledge (unlikely) as a manager to grow the biz for you, then do it, if not start out small and you will learn as you grow…
This forum will keep you from learning some mistakes the hard way…
BTW, forget about equipment and insurance cost, your not going to need that if you have no work! Your main expense starting out is going to getting new clients…
Toronto is a very big city, and so there are more then likely lots of Window Cleaning companies that do hi-rise work ! What 076-Man had said is very sound advice for a beginner. One should always learn first how to clean windows before doing chair work ! Learning to repel and clean windows at the same time while doing chair work cuts the learning process in half !
Another thing 076-Man said is there is more to chair work then on one type of building ,each building has different needs or similar needs, all building need knowledge and understanding to the needs for the drop, safety, tie back , so on and so forth ! Being on one building and dropping is not enough to know what other buildings entail !!!
One more point of good advice from 076-Man is to go to work for a company and learn to window clean and to do hi-rise work, him saying 6 months to a year, is very good, to learn what the needs are, and tools, and how to clean efficiently and drop soundly with experience !
Boss-Man has also given sound advice…When he said " [COLOR=#333333]start out small and you will learn as you grow… " ! You need to start at the bottom rung and then move up, you’ll never be able to start at the top, and doing chair work is hi end work ! Plus his point about getting clients is also sound, and to try and get clients in doing hi-rise and not knowing how to clean window let alone chair / stage work you’ll never know on how to bid on the work !
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Either start small, or it would really help to be trained properly to learn the business, especially hi-rise , go after the work in Toronto with hi-rise companies willing to hire you and train you, after that then start thinking about doing your own highly technical window cleaning business !
Personally I’m insured to do over 40 floors with a 2 million dollar insurance with a 4 million umbrella , being self employed, costing around 1500 a year…
Dr.Dange
Hi Chris,
Why do you want to get into high rise window cleaning? It seems like an odd choice coming from someone without a window cleaning background or a rope access background. My experience has been that the fantasy of doing high rise fades quickly with most people. They imagine lot’s of money and lot’s of fun. The reality is that most cities have an extremely competitive market for high rise window cleaning which drives the price down, because price is everything in high rise - or close to everything. The fun part is definitely there at times but that fades quickly as well after you’ve done the same drop 1,000 times. I would take the other guys suggestion and start cleaning windows on the ground, once you get established on the ground you can take a crack at a little mid-rise building and see how you like it.
Please keep in mind , there is not anything inherently profitable about rope work. It might seem counter intuitive (“can you imagine what those guys get paid?!?..”), but its a fact. Over my twenty years in business, I have found RDS work is never the most profitable portion of our work, but usually the most capital intensive, and certainly carries great liability exposure. Many companies find residential work just as profitable. We find the sweet spot is when only a portion of the job is RDS, and the rest of the project is a mix of types of work (ground, ladder, lift, WFP). I always encourage starting on the ground to understand bidding, efficiency, customer relations, marketing, etc, and work your way up. Partner with a pure high rise company, if needed, to land that contract with multiple buildings. Wish you the best.
Just some input from a guy who’s done a little chair work (me). I’m a straight wizard with a squeegee on the ground, on a ladder, on scaffolding, in any kind of lift. I suck in a bosuns chair. Like, really bad. Like, a rookie would lap me.
Chair work will humble you quickly. It’s a different set of skills. Trying to cup and wash at the same time, trying to finish off right where your cup was a second ago without swinging wildly away from the glass, trying to use your feet to keep you from twisting around like a piñata… And it only gets harder as your rope gets longer.
Point is, even if you are a black belt window cleaner, you’ll probably still suck in a chair for awhile. It’s like window cleaning +1. So if you have illusions that you’ll be productive right away just because you have a ground game, forget it.
[COLOR=“#0000CD”]That got me laughing, Just the thought…HaHa…LOL[/COLOR]
GREAT POST Caleb
Rope work not profitable? Your either outta your mind or can’t carry a full rds up a couple flight of stairs Orr you need help evaluating roof tops.
when I worked for the big companies & they gave me a quota, I always brought them under, cut every pane & averaged close to $30.00 an hour as a dedicated trustworthy employee. Very cutthroat round here’s too.
think I would find out the top rate for a high rise guy in your area. Put some high rise guy needed on Craigslist. Pick the most universal cleaner with at least 5 years on ropes. Maybe offer him 2 bucks above his rate after 30 days if alls well. i’m sure he’ll be able to pull in new guys as your business grows. Most window cleaners are pretty tight that hang together. Each new hire immediately takes I WCA Cert test if they have experience.
Back track to all the insurance, workmans comp & blah blah blah equipment too…
i started from scratch & spent little under $20,000.00 with 3 fully equipped rds’s in the mix of all my equipment. But I also am the mule that does bout 60% of the work load most days on sites I’m on & gave myself salary only till we beef up more.
So you should factor another $20,000.00 on hand to pay the guys cause some management teams have 90 day waits for your fruit.
So much up selling for high rise work too. Bird proofing, pressure washing, glazing, monthly ground, hanging banners from a chair that saves em lots of cash & makes you more than enough…graffiti removal,
I am certainly outta my mind, as many will attest to!
I just mean in the big picture. We routinely do WFP work that comes in at $225 per man hour, and lift work at $200 per hour, but can rarely hit that doing RDS work (rarely not more than $150.00, but yes, we’re all really slow). Unfortunately, area markets can affect RDS profitability specifically. We’re between two high rise markets where rates in one are [I]triple what they are in the other. [/I]LOcally, a nine story police station, in & out, about 30 drops was awarded (as a matter of public record) for $705.00. Read that number again: $705.00 Our bid was 5 times that. Some digging revealed the entire city works at these rates (Only foreman for these area companies can make as much as $15.00 per hour; pathetic). These numbers aren’t anecdotal, but, unfortunately accurately represent this market. So check out your local high rise market before you invest in your equipment.
Please understand that learning the basics really quickly and then doing your own jobs might get you killed. There are many aspects to chair work that simply do not fall under the category of common sense. You have to learn certain nuances of the trade that you are very unlikely to come across if you just try to “pick it up” by, say, hiring some random guy with “experience” to teach you. Those who “do” cannot always teach comprehensively. And many times, those with many years of experience do many things wrong and unsafe, especially to save time or money, not only because of ignorance.
Weak training might take a bit of time to come back to bite you, but when it does, you or someone that you’ve trained might fall. I’m telling you, you gotta take a legit course or be employed by a legit outfit.
A class will teach you how to create a rooftop safety culture and it will fill you with comprehensive information. It will also give you hands-on training that won’t end in death if you mess up during the sessions.
From rope storage to rope use records, side loading to rope inspection, rescue plans to logistical planning, you need legit training. Even then, many guys are not cut out for this.
