I understand your perspective but it’s also not hard to go oh this hamburger doesn’t come with cheese I would like cheese on it please. Also I will tell you this I don’t know about your market but a lot of people don’t look at the itemized pricing they only look at the total. For example I go quote a window cleaning for $200, you go quote a window cleaning for $180.00, screen cleaning for $70.00 and post construction cleanup for $120.00. There will literally be people that are so dumb they don’t look at the itemization they just look at the total and they will call me and go yeah the other guy wanted $370 so we hired you. There are times where it is beneficial to just show the lowest price to get in. I can’t tell you how many times I have given a bid for windows screens and tracks and the customer went well so and so only wants this much and they’re referring to a quote about a company that’s doing glass only let alone an improvement in quality customer service and the fact that there’s different business expenses behind what everybody charges and profit margins. Some companies/people focus on the total instead of the itemization and if you quote them for the cleaning and the construction they’ll go oh wow we need to get other bids. I appreciate your feedback and I’m not arguing with you I am just stating my side as well you can’t act like this lady is a victim of poor service she had three opportunities to go I would like cheese on my hamburger please. you don’t go out to eat and go oh they never offered cheese so I guess I can’t speak up
It’s never beneficial to nit show what your charging them for !
What are you doing for the 200 ? So you would go to construction clean estimate an just write window cleaning 200 on the estimate
Does this happen on a constant with you , or is this more an anomaly . I agree with Seth you have to market to a higher caliber customer.
I just don’t see this often , of course there is always goin to be these type , but thank god it isn’t the norm.
Here are my finals thoughts on this:
If I go to a restaurant and order a hamburger, cheese burgers are already on the menu. I can clearly see it’s there and it’s price. I’ve got nothing to complain about because both choices are clear to see, as well as how much they cost. Now if the restaurant didn’t list the cheese burger or the price, is it my fault they didn’t readily offer them and I wanted one?
In the same respect to Company A and B giving a bid on windows… If company A is $200 and explains all about the construction debris as well as company B, what am I as a customer expecting NO MATTER who I choose, at the end? I am expecting CLEAN windows. I would assume from the effort that company A spent explaining construction clean to me, that the price quoted would include it all, unless that quote had a specific choice to either do the construction clean or not.
YOU are expected to be and are perceived to be, a professional. YOU are the one that’s supposed to be (and assumed to be) the one that decides how things are to be done right. If the windows need a construction clean up, then you tell them that and price the job that way. Your reputation is on the line. You are the captain of your ship.
I offer every bid, options of how a clean will be offered to be done. On a job such as the one you were talking about, I would only offer construction clean out only, and in/out. THEN I list future cleans in the same break down for maintenance. It’s all in ONE bid. No wasting time, no confusion, no doing work I don’t want to stand behind. I control the quality of my work. I have every right to control if something is going to be half assed, and have my name attached to it.
If you are worried that if you operate that way, that you’ll lose business… You think this lady that complained is going to call you back, now? She doesn’t seem happy with the work. You didn’t meet her expectations. How many times can a business end up in a situation like this, and still keep the phone ringing? A business relies on long term relationships. Long term relationships rely on clear communications, quality work and great customer service.
So let me clarify and be a little more clear. If it is a construction clean as in you show up to the property and you and the customer obviously know hey there is tape, paint overspray, glue etc everywhere like a big white elephant in the room then yes obviously I quote for that. I’m talking customers who find very minimal construction debris and then go well you didn’t take that off.
I think this is a never ending discussion. Price offered or no price offered the lady was told on the phone does not included removal of such and such (Could have said yes we have that on 3 windows please remove), Customer was given email proposal( could have called and said whats that term and condition), Windows clean and shiny with a little construction debris (I physically walk up to her and say this is what I was telling you about with the construction debris ( the lady replies okay I understand) I said so you are happy she replies yes I am. Days later just a food for thought. That is laughable and mind blowing that you are defending her. Never stated this in the above post so let me say again, She stated she understood and was HAPPY!!! Also price or no price difference she was told 3 times it was not included. Whether a price is shown or not if a customer is told once, twice, let alone 3 times something that WANT is not included in the basic they paid for it is their job to speak up and go hey I want this how much extra would it be. You cant honestly tell me that customers have the right to be mute buttons and then complain about something that was told to them 3 times because there was no price offer. She was educated by a “professional” sat there and said nothing then hid behind an email complaint.
Here’s the deal,
1 She isn’t “happy” if she complains. Most people are not confrontational. They may tell you to your face they are happy, but won’t be. They just won’t call you again or even may go so far to complain to other people about your work.
2 You didn’t give her a price for the work that needed done. You didn’t make it an option. IMO, you just went after the quick money, because you were afraid of being under bid. You didn’t think of long term, you just make it look like you are after quick money.
3 You are quick to throw potential customers under the bus. You don’t seem to take ANY responsibility in the situation. You are quick to call your potential clients “dumb”.
It’s your business, run it however you want. However, you won’t retain people and grow if you never see any fault in what you do. You need to be a people pleaser, and if you can’t be, someone else will be. That’s just how it works. Being a people pleaser doesn’t mean being a push over, but it also doesn’t mean looking at everyone like they are jerks either. You need to figure out how to get people coming back for more, not just using you once.
I’ve offered my advice, and it appears you have it all figured out already and don’t appreciate any help.
Carry on soldier…
This is a window cleaning forum where several professionals come on here and get to vent outside of their actual business. I certainly never call clients dumb in my business. This is a forum where that is commonly done outside of the actual window cleaning world where we don’t actually talk to people like that. I think you are misinterpreting this whole situation it wasn’t like a major construction job. We are talking about a half an hour of scraping. You would have had to have seen the actual job you would have bid it just as a window cleaning also I guarantee it. I just think it’s funny that you act as if business is a one-way street and there’s no responsibility of customers. customers don’t have to obey what they sign they don’t have to speak up they just get to whine and moan and not do their due diligence and that means the business is not ran by a professional.
Perhaps this is what you could consider next time. If it’s minimal and/or small - just remove it so your work looks perfect. I ran into that just last week on a new dealership.
Sometimes we get too caught up in exact pricing and detailed quotes. Personally, I try to ‘underpromise but overdeliver’. This may seem small, but the customers often remember it and recommend based on it.
I have to be honest with ya. I think your getting very trivial, if it’s minimal why don’t you just take care of it ? I know we cant see everything on estimates , Me if it’s minimal I just take care of it . If it’s a lot I’ll bring it to therr attention, An take it from there. Yes I will try to charge.
But presenting your estimate the right way is important in my eyes.
Then when they say something …if they do. You say my estimate says we don’t include XYZ
Here is one of my estimates for a regular cleaning
I don’t worry about trival stuff. , like a little paint or whatever. I’ll tske off a little , but if there is a lot I’ll bring it to therr attention, An take it from there.
My main concerns are , hard water staining , screen Oxidation. This by know means Would be included in a regular cleaning.
So many people are saying why not just remove it… ok how, now 99% of you are gonna pull out a blade and ignore care instructions.
When windows are dirty you cannot see the construction debris or hard water staining, as it often lies under a layer of dirt.
Now windows are clean and we notice debris, we need to identify the debris and use an appropriate method to remove it that will not damage the glass. For me I am generally tightly booked I literally do not have time to do this after the “general” clean has been done, these debris will be recorded in the customers information so that next time if they so choose the debris can be removed safely for the right price with allocated time, I educate the customer regarding changes to the glass manufactures care instructions informing them that there is a highly likely even that using a blade to remove the debris will cause damage.
I personally have never encountered customers who complained about the debris not being removed.
Yup. That’s it exactly Steve. As long as the window cleaning supply shops continue to sell razors, most of us will continue to use them. This thread is talking about seeing one or two spots and just taking care of them, not taking a razor to the entire project.
Care instructions from the manufacturer are only good if every trade before you has followed those same instructions. But they usually don’t. And that leaves it to us to have the skill to remove as much as possible without damage.
And this is what they usually hear “blah, blah, blah”. While customer communication is important, most customers just want the windows cleaned. They don’t care how you do it - they are interested in results. Can you clean my windows or not? If i see a spot on their window that would drive me nuts to look at everyday, why would I leave it there if it was in my power to remove it in a timely fashion? It pays for us to try and see everything from their vantage point.
Yes, depending on the glass I’m working on, I’m probably going to pull out a blade. I general go to bronze wool first, but if there is tape on the window, out comes the blade.
Sometimes yes, that’s true. I find this most often with hard water staining, but things like paint and silicone, I can see that without cleaning first.
I get you are hard core against blades. I don’t like using them either if I can avoid it within reasonable time. But why are we bickering among each other about blades? If the glass industry made better quality glass, you think we’d have this issue?
People want/expect the glass to be clean. If I can’t deliver that, I’m not going to be in business long…
I think you would have all had to have just seen the job. This wasn’t so much construction debris that it was obviously needing an itemized quote but it was enough that it wasn’t just included in the quote. I guess I could have been more aggressive about offering a price to get rid of it so I’m not saying that I’m 100% free of the best communication. I guess what I’m after is an acknowledgement by Hoosier that this wasn’t 100% me at least acknowledge the customer had opportunity. You’re acting like I showed up and gave a sneaky window cleaning price intentionally to ignore other work. I gave three different methods of communication could I have offered a price to take care of it sure but you have to throw me a bone that there was a percentage of that on her as well.
I’ll just say that I do NOT offer sills and tracks included. It’s a separate charge. Most of my clients don’t open their windows, and if they do, it’s rare.
However, I do have a few that want the total package.
I always ask if they want a quote on tracks and sills. When they do, like in your instance, I offer it both ways, like you showed.
If they choose NOT to have them done after turning down the option, they don’t have a foot to stand on.
I however, have NEVER to date, had one person complain like you are talking about. You make this sound like this is something that happens often to you. From other’s feedback, they don’t experience it either. I am CLEAR in both written and oral communications, what they are offered and what they are choosing.
To me, it seems you need to work on communications. You made the first situation sound at first, like there was some amount of construction debris that was at least somewhat substantial. The few extra minutes to clean it up would have been part of the job, and it would have already been in the price. I think you are getting pretty nit picky about stuff.
Being in this business isn’t just about making money. It takes people skills too. You need to know how to make people happy, and you need to know a bit about human nature and human psychology. The people you are selling to are NOT window cleaning experts. They are not going to spend hours/days/weeks, researching about window cleaners and window cleaning. People buy our services based on emotion, and how we make them “feel” sets the tone. So if you act dismissive or irritated with them, you are setting a negative tone.
As far as our discussion about this quoting issue, I’m just done with it. I gave my opinions. I’m a business owner too, and what I do and you do, may be different. I’m only try to help you be more successful. I just don’t feel there is any value in chewing the fat anymore, about this.
Not chewing fat it’s just amazing after all of these messages you still cannot acknowledge that she even 1% is at fault. Like I said you act like I gave her a totally blind bid and never gave her any educational explanation. Apparently you think this customer was 100% victimized by my poor communication and had 0% lack of due diligence so whatever. And I kept changing what I was saying about the construction cleanup because people’s responses were as if it was a major construction job and then when I said no they acted like it was one speck of paint so I was trying to communicate that it was in the middle, Not by any means a construction clean up that needed an itemized quote but not by any means A 15 second scrape
I would almost guarantee that at some point in your business you have had to lay down the law on a customer because the lack of their due diligence. Also this isn’t just me tons of businesses phone companies, landscapers, restaurants the list goes on have customers complaints because customers don’t pay attention
Of course , but it’s a small percentage. Thank god !!
Most people won’t be balsy an confront someone about what they don’t like about your service. They will just never call you again.
So just cause you walk away with no complaints doesn’t mean there happy or without complaints.
Communication , people skills , an the understanding what a professional job entails is what will make for a successful business. We all get there are very picky people out there. I tend to not want to have them as a reoccurring customer. Let’s face it if you look hard enough you can find fault in anything.
I freaking hate the word perfect. What’s perfect to you may nit be perfect to me. What’s perfect to me may not be perfect to you.
So when someone says I made them perfect or they have to be perfect , what does that look like.
I’m not wanting to work that way , unless you want To pay me by my hourly wage. I’ll work all week to make them perfect for you according to your perfectionist eyes.
We’re all human we miss things sometimes an therr are times when a customer points something out ,it’s nit necessarily being picky , An I say oh sorry let me redo that, or that’s just not going to come off with a regular type cleaning. You need x done
We all knew when someone gets out of hand , an gets overly picky, those are the ones you don’t want back IMO.
@Denver13 you still haven’t giving us a percentage of how often this happens to you ?
I think most people running a business are generally booked. For me I’m not talking a half hours worth of work. What I’m talking about is something that takes literally 3 seconds.
An yes I use my blade have 1000s of times, but won’t do excessive removal of construction debris. I’ll bring it the customers. Attention, an explain to the them what’s entailed.
If you cant get good results shouldn’t the customer be notified soon as possible to discuss options?
Communication is a simple way to avoid issues.
We do this daily, customers have a different outlook. Dont assume anything.
