Gentleman,
This is of the up most importance. For those that do High rise I need some help. Could someone please go on the link I provide and take a look at this tower and tell me what they would charge. I counted a total of 286 drops. Perhaps I’m off. I have to have a bid in by next week. I would need the price for outside and in.
I will not be doing the work, just the hiring and managing.
Hey Anthony … looks like a sweet job!
I see only maybe 30 drops… Or are you counting separate drops for those ledges?
I don’t know. I am not experinced at all with high rise. What would you bid this at. And please excuse my ignorance, but what is considered a drop. I counted two windows all the way down then the next two all the way down. I may be totally off, and I more than likely am. Could you offer some advice?
To clarify I thought each window down was a drop. Like 2 windows one drop, go down next set another drop. You’re probaley laughing, but what would you bid this at?
If you are not experienced at all in highrise, why are you bidding on a job? Do you have the proper insurance in place. Do you know whether the guys you are hiring, follow proper safety regs, have enough insurance, and otherwise are up to speed legally, and safety wise?
You wouldn’t want to have a bad situation happen, like some safety accident, or getting in trouble with the government.
I may not be experinced in high rise but I certainly can manage. Yes all saftey and legal procedures will be followed. I will sub out the outside while I do the entire inside. And yes any company that gets hired wil have everything in place. I don’t operate a two bit operation good sir.
Is it a CCU job seeing as some units are not sold?
Anthony i am sure you can manage in general terms alright, however understand that you must manage a price also,this type of managing isn’t only about delegation and personell management.
This managing means you must carry out the whole process from the start to include pricing management, sub contracting, site managing, regulation managing, time managing
Obviously you cannot manage the pricing aspect of this job, as indicated from above.
I have to say neither could i seeing as it is not my field of expertise.
Personally i think mike is right, start small and grow big…this is one heck of a job for your first taste of high rise regardles of weather you are subcontracting or not.I would leave it.
You will not understand what the high rise company will be talking about when working with them.
Their manager will be talking about this drop and that fixture and so on, and seeing as you don’t have any knowledge in this field you will be forced to just go along and agree and say “ye ye ye ok” and just let them get on with it.
So how can you say that the safety side of things will be taken care of??
How is that managing?
You will be putting your trust in a company that you are supposed to be managing.how can you manage in a field you know nothing about?
If you really are still willing to go ahead though why not, seeing as you will subcontract,
get some high rise companys to quote on the building for you.
There is no point in offering a price that someone on the forum suggests, and winning the contract only to find that when you look to subcontract, no high-rise company will work at such a price.
The basic price to submit for the contract depends on:
1 Your price you will charge for your inside work that you will personally carry out
2 the price the high rise firm is charging you
3 and whatever profit for yourself you deem satisfactory ontop of that
4 plus taxes and equiptment
Anthony I also have no idea about high rise, and like you I can manage people. I would attempt to get this job as well.
My rough guess would be 60,000 ish of the top of my head. I would obviously put in some heavy research.
Rob makes some very valid points. I do have a company that I am close with and trust. There are a lot of factors. And Rob your input is considered. However, I already have the rest of Carnegie Abbey which in itself is a 30,000 -35,000 account. I just picked this up. I must say I have to go along with this one and get the tower. As long as I get my price for the inside and make a little for the out, I am happy. I will let the company that will do this get what they need. Again I know the owner and do trust him. I know many would say start small go big. I have been small for a while now my business is growing to the point that I am ready to expand. I must take this calculated risk. I am still open to any constructive criticism and viewpoints.
Godspeed.
OK firstly congrats and fair play for already picking up the 30k account for the development, i can understand why you are eager to secure the tower account due to this.(use the fact that you have the 30k to your advantage)
Just be careful…you need to submit a offer by next week.that’s a lot of work and research to do in the coming days.
you have to price in a way where your price is competitive whilst also ensuring everyone makes their cut.
I would imagine you will be bidding against some major w/c companies.
In my experience some developments don’t really like dealing with firms who just subcontract, for a number of reasons i can think of (quality, communication, unnecessary price add on’s) so at the start i wouldn’t be declaring this too loudly.
Make sure the subcontracting is all legal and have your solicitors draft up appropriate documentation so as to cover your a** in every possible mishap imaginable.
Also i would be weary in regards of payment…over here anyhow construction firms are not doing too well and you may find that despite the size of the company who is developing the site, they may take their time in paying you.
As i can see on the website they have only sold half of their development, and another half of that may be yet unprocessed deals.
So they have a lot of expenses at the moment and probably not alot of cash in this project.They do not have much cash in hand at the moment coming from this particular development.
They don’t care about guys like you and me they will leave your 60k in the bank to gather interest for them for as long as possible(until you come shouting and screaming).
This is especially important seeing as you are obliged to pay the firm you are subcontracting and not just yourself.
Also do some research…you need to talk the talk in front of these guys.
it is likely that they will have someone who is competent in the high rise trade but not based in the area look over the submitted bids, or have you fill out a questionnaire culminated by a expert asking basic q’s like “how many drops do you envisage?” and so forth, so you cannot afford to look stupid from a reputation point of view as you will in the futuree be dealing with these people regardless of weather you win the contract or not, as you have the 30k contract.
If i was you i would set up a consultancy meeting with a high-rise expert out of town and ask him to go through the ins and outs of high rise with you…throw him a few hundred bucks for consultancy
However you go about it you need to start from 7am tomorrow morning.
This job is obviously massive, and pulling off a successful bid in one week requires alot of work and determination.
Damn good advice chap. There is alot to this job. What you have said has really made me think. One thing I have done is research the developer. He is a billonaire. Elton John has already bought the penthouse, and many other Hollywood celebraties have bought into this arena. In my opinoin because I perhaps live here cannot see a celebrity or a millonaire buying here. From what I have researched Carnegie Abbey is one of the 7 most exclusive and luxiorous resorts in the world. The chap that developed this is Irish himself. O’neil his name is. If I won the contract half the money I would demand up front 40% when I was done, and the rest of the 10% to be billed out net 30 days. Again your comments give me much to think about. I will not mention subcontracting to them to loudly. Even If I did not tack on anything extra for the outside, I would still make my money from the inside. As always I always wil except your comments or anyone elses. They are much appreciated.
For a start i very much doubt this guy Brian O’Neill is a billionaire, he is not listed on forbes, and it seems the only place you can find a profile of him is on his company website.
Sure he is a wealthy man but having a company which manages a few billion $ of properties doesn’t mean he is worth a few billion $'s.
For example, there is a developer living down the road from me who probably develops sites worth over $10-20 but that doesn’t mean he is worth that, he just takes a small percentage cut after each development has sold.
i.e when they say they have $4bn worth of property in development think of the huge costs of building the development…it’s probably cost them close to that figure to build the developments
These companies go into huge debts while developing sites such as carniege with the hopes of a successful selling outcome, so don’t be fooled they not be as liquid as they seem.
Also the only reason why this guy is successful is due to the fact that he is obviously very shrewd, no disrespect to him.
I found a newspaper report on the web regarding this development which stated that Carnegie tower had sold 50% of its units, that article was dated September 2007…and one year on their website still maintains that just over 50% of units are sold, so unless they just are not updating their website(unlikely), then the are obviously feeling the effects of the sliding economy.
When you say you would demand 40% on completion of the clean and then 10% after 30 days what do you mean to say?What about the rest (50%)
Why not ask for like10%-20% upon commencement of job?, say it is for equiptment and utilities, you need cash upon commencement as you will have to pay your employees and give money to the subcontracted firm so they can pay their employees.This is a long job so unless you have a big bank a/c at the moment you cannot afford to let you employees go without a wage for the duration of the work.
And why not ask for the remaining 90%-80% on job completion?
Your work is done here so why not be paid on completion.
Maybe things work differently over there but if i finish a job i expect to be paid upfront or at least in the preceding 30 days.
By the way, when you say that even if you didn’t make any money from the outside work, you would be happy just to make it from the inside work.
why go about it that way?
Look at the trouble this outside work is causing you!!
You will be worrying about the outside work until it’s complete, is that worry not worth an extra few quid??
Also say in a years time you are offered to clean the tower once again, what if this time you want to make a few bob from the outside aswell?
Your price that you quote will jump through the roof and they will come back saying "“listen buddy you are now quoting 30% more expensive than last year,
Whats up?”
Anyhow that’s just my thoughts.
It’s up to you to carry out the job as you feel fit.
I’m not trying to be difficult Rob but Anthony said he was going to ask for half (50%) up front then 40% when the job was done and the remainder (10%) net 30 days. Just trying to clarify.
My mistake…i was looking at the figures 40% and 10% and did not see the 50%as it was written in text form as [B]“half”[/B].
Thanks for pointing that out as i couldn’t understand that.
Anthony, assuming that the 2 sides we can see in the pic are duplicated on the other 2 sides then I count 28 drops, maybe 30, on a post construction wash it could take anything from a few hours to a day to do a drop depending on how bad they are and how fussy the client is
On a regular wash a good team would do 3-5 drops a day per man per day( weather and wind being major factors where you are)
Some hi-rise companies will work for as little as $250 a man day , others are $6-700 per man day,
Without actually seeing the building , which if I still did hi-rise, would be something I would not do, I would bid roughly $14000 for the exterior of all windows above the 3rd floor not accessible from balconies
You said you know and trust the guy who you will sub it too, so why didn’t you ask him?
And from reading the Irish papers, there are a lot of Billionaire Irish developers becoming Millionaires every day:D
That would not include the 4 windows above the clock if the roof over head is peaked
Just checked its not peaked
[B]This advice above is gold.[/B]
Every market is different. In Toronto the developer would laugh you out the door for trying to charge upwards of $30,000 for this.
In other cities, you can get double that.
You really need a local high-rise guy. Make him sign a NDNC agreement, and then walk him right in.
I have a friend who did what you’re describing, and lost money on what he thought would be a juicy, gravy job. Investigate your legal liabilities, too, high-rise-wise.
I thank all for the advice. Yes there is alot to this and I will consult with the high rise specialist. A non compete waiver will be signed for this job. Knowing the guy or not. Business is business. Capisci?
Anthony, it would be really interesting to hear how you went about your bid and what the final result was.
Hope you got it…How did it go then?
Just a warning for all those who bid on jobs. I just had the pleasure of doing a job that was not surveyed correctly and over run to a very large extent.
The building was a brand new six floor construction. So Initial clean was required. The glass was substandard so no scrapers could be used. The windows as usual for Vegas were of black glass cheaply manufactured with lots of faults. Add to that the usual clean standards of installation. The job became hard work, Lots of steel wool, and scrubbing pads. Now add the position of the windows and the Vegas cool weather Sun strait on windows, 0600 to 0800hrs east face,0800 to 1100hrs south face and the rest of the day on the west face.
The building has nice new tie of points on the east north and south face’s but some one forgot to put them on the west face then add a nice 45degre sloping roof up to the drop point and only a air conditioning unit to tie of to and of course the normal high parapet to scale over . The building was designed for swing stage and davits were in place but some one forgot to put the power circuits in
Then add the Vegas planning system, so every time you finished a window some one would decide to pressure test it and the gardeners decided to lay gravel just after the clean and water the plants within it
Nice layers of gravel dust and water strait on the windows.
A weeks work became a months work. And every one lost money
Wow, I can`t believe you did this.
In Canada, this decision would have cost you a one-time fine of up to $50,000 if you`re a sole proprietor, and if your wc company is incorporated, up to $500,000. The building owner would also be slammed with a fine, and they would come after you too.
I`m amazed that in Vegas, with so much construction, you can get away with things like this.
