I’m having a tough time picking between the [B]Hydrotube [/B] and [B]Wash-IT Pro[/B] for everyday professional use.
Thoughts?
Has anybody used one and then switched?
[MENTION=37029]orcawindowclean[/MENTION]
Go with the Wash-iT you will see much better performance.
I have both and both perform well with good city water pressure.
Wash-it has better flexibility to solve low pressure situations.
wash-it costs a little more up front but a lot less to maintain throughout the year.
Thanks guys. Talked to somebody and pulled the trigger on the Wash-IT.
Wash-IT Pro came in, meter read 330PPM before, it got down to 19PPM on R.O. only but didn’t get below the 15PPM stated in the manual.
I went ahead and tested out a few windows on my house and it worked fine, but it didn’t give me confidence to use it on a customers house.
Then is starting storming really hard so I called it a day and didn’t get a chance to try out the D.I. or Combo settings.
Did anybody else have this problem the first time they used it?
One thing to consider about RO’s. 1. they work better as the incoming pressure improves. 2. RO’s are rate with water temp around 77°F, I think. Either way, it’s early spring and I wouldn’t be surprised if you get better readings as the temps go up.
But yes you are correct, those numbers aren’t great. But still 95% reduction.
One last thing. I think I heard something as well about existing levels of silicates being able to get through regardless of filter type.
yes, this from Perry Tait. [I]"[COLOR=#333333]Silicates are smaller than water molecules ( so the RO can’t catch them all)"[/COLOR][/I]
yes, point #7. in the manual for ‘RO only’ operation says [I]“Allow pure water flow from brush for a couple of minutes. Take a water sample with TDS meter. Be sure to rinse the cup and end of meter to ensure an accurate reading. If TDS reading is below 15 PPM, unit is operating properly and ready to wash glass.”
[/I]I’m thinking your water was still quite cold or incoming pressure was low. But John Lee or Alex can help you more.
Thanks! I will try it again… once it stops storming. I also wasn’t rinsing off the end of the meter so hopefully that gets those numbers below 15.
I purchased the Wash-iT Pro a little over a month ago and have used it for several jobs thus far. I too have been having issues getting my TDS below 15 with RO only, so I have consistently been using RO/DI. I think a lot has to do with my temp, still very cold, as well as my actual water, it may be high in silicates causing the TDS to remain a little higher than desired. I was not getting spot free drying from RO only, which is why I use the DI as well. But you still get a ton of gallonage out of your DI tank when you’re pre screening it with the RO.
So far I’m VERY happy with my purchase and would definitely recommend the WIP to anyone who asks. It’s a great piece, and also a conversation piece. I’ve had people come up to me and talk to me because what I was using looked interesting, and they end up taking a business card. Cool.
I recently bought a brand new Wash-iT, too. My area has very high TDS reading (750 ppm on the average). I get about 92% RO rejection rate with this water. If I run “softened” water (that has gone through my home water softener), the TDS is still high at 750 ppm, but now it’s salt ions instead of mineral ions, then my RO performance goes up to about 95%. But I’ve not been able to get better than 95%, even though I have great water pressure at 80 psi and cold water temperature is not an issue to me since I live in AZ.
I’ve had John Lee help me run through some standard tests and he couldn’t determine why I can’t get the 98% advertised spec either. He passed me over to the IPC Eagle people (the mfg) and they weren’t helpful either. So I just chalk it up to my TDS being too high for the RO to perform at rated spec. 95% on softened water is good enough for me, so I just let it slide.
With regards to silicates, it will not just slip through your RO but will also slip through your DI as well because it’s not ionized to be caught by the DI resins. So if your RO under performs but you still get 0ppm out of the DI, then you probably don’t have silicates.
Good to hear, I would have loved to try it out in full but again I was chased inside by the storm and it’s just been nasty out today too so hopefully I can try it out tomorrow and have better luck. Your post was encouraging.
You may find that after a couple more hours use, the RO Perfornance is maximized.
We rely on IPC Eagle to source and warrant the actual RO Membrane used in Wash-iT PRO - and they themselves do not manufacture membranes, but they buy a lot of them for all their systems - if there is an issue with membranes, I am sure we will get solutions …
Thanks for choosing a Wash-iT !
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I’ve run at least 250 gallons of water through my Wash-iT so far. So I assume I’ve already passed the “break-in” period. I also have great pressure in my area (about 80 psi). And it’s now very warm in AZ (in the 90-100F). So without any more excuse about cold water or low pressure, my Wash-iT should be performing at the optimum temperature now. And I’ve still only been getting around 94-95% rejection rate.
Normally I wouldn’t complain about getting 95% rejection rate. But according to the Wash-iT manual, it CLAIMS 99% rejection rate, with the last 1% removed by the DI.
I’ve had John Lee gone through the test with me already to verify the flow rate and all, and he passed me over to talk with IPC Eagle for further resolution. But no solution was offered by IPC Eagle. They just had a brief conversation with me and blamed it on the high TDS in my area (around 700-800ppm). They told me to find other parts in my area with lower TDS reading (like around 300-400ppm), and if I’m still getting only 95% rejection, then let them know. Well, I’ve sampled water all over my areas and they’re all in the high 700ppm. So I can’t “prove” anything to them. But obviously in this case, the OP only has 330ppm and is also getting 95% rejection just like me. So the OP has helped “prove” that 95% is typically the ratio in newly sold Wash-iT units. Not 99% as claimed.
I’m not a picky guy so I’ve already decided I can live with 95% rejection rate and let it slide. But it irks me to see Perry keeps saying “I’m sure we’ll get solutions…” Well, been there done that and no solution was offered. The best solution in my opinion is to back down on the marketing hype and change the manual to say 95% rejection rate. Then not every customer and their brother will keep asking why they’re only getting 95% instead of the claimed 99%.
I hear your frustrations and reasoning behind it. It’s sounds like you are happy for the most part with your Wash-iT but feel let down by the manual and its claims. Wording for these things must be chosen carefully and since IPC has been a leader in building these types of units, WCR/Perry are going off the claims of the engineers.
That said, it propbably would have been better to give a range of typical performance…say between 95-99% under ideal condidtions. It’s like gas mileage claims for a make/model of car. I’m sure out of the 1000’s of cars coming off an assembly line that they’re are all getting different gas mileages in and around that claimed number.
Hey Phong Im sorry for your frustration, and I do believe you are right about the wording. Im forwarding your post over to the lead engineer at IPC for comment. Likely he will reply to me and I can fill everyone in here.
I set myself a reminder to follow back up with you here in a fews days.
This is an excellent analogy here Mark with car gas mileage. The performance probably varies depending on the condition.
I’m sure the IPC guys have seen 99% rejection out of some of their units, but maybe that’s only under ideal conditions with very low input TDS in the first place. Maybe at 100ppm and very high pressure, etc, you can get 99% out of it. But out in the field, real world conditions have much higher TDS, lower pressure, etc. that will reduce this performance to 95% or less. I don’t remember seeing any poster here on this forum say they’ve been able to get 99% rejection rate out of it. I mostly remember people seeing 95% or less.
Also, maybe the OEM membrane they used before were of higher quality and maybe recent membrane used were not as high quality. Who knows… But setting such a high expectation and not being able to deliver it consistently will make people think that the product is defective and can only cause frustration from customers.
Hi Phong …
As you well know, the Wash-iT PRO is made for us by IPC Eagle … they chose all the components to make it do what my specification was … They made and printed the manual that you refer to and they warrant the Wash-iT PRO …
We do have customers that have 98% and likely 99% rejection rates … and there is absolutely a truth that your Wash-iT PRO may well deliver a 95%, 96%, 97%, and 98% rejection in other parts of the country …
I wish we could have our time again and put the clauses into the manual that catered for different water conditions … but we cannot - we know we are paying for a very good, and very ‘pressure efficient’ RO Membrane … that is what we can do - when IPC say ‘do you want to go cheap, or quality?’ - I said quality - and Phong - you have got a quality piece of equipment right there.
Wash-iT PRO has the lowest running cost of all systems in the market, it is uniquely designed to be maintained for long Membrane life … it has no valves or adjustable things to go wrong - in a nutshell, it’s problem is not ‘it’s problem’ … it’s problem is us, the humans that wrote the manual, the humans that prepared the marketing materials, us - the humans that did not test the water in every municipality of America … and, on behalf of all of us, we owe you an apology that we set your expectations higher than the performance of the system in your town.
I completely accept your correction, and we have changed our presentations (maybe not the manuals) - but the old posts from 18 months ago are still being referenced … and they are based on the assurances and testing experience data that we had at the time before there was a product in the market.
John Lee will represent you to the engineers at IPC Eagle and see what we can do … we care about your experience … but please know that this is a science with variables we cannot control … we are using ROs in ways they are not designed to be used (they are meant to have continual flow)to save money and keep you safe on the ground while you clean windows !
The difference is that there’s no forum where you can get online in your underwear and scream at the people at Ford if you don’t get the same results that they say you will, based on their tests under “ideal conditions, which may vary.”
Because Perry has put himself here in the public (unlike most manufacturers) he is given the business every time someone finds a screw lose on anything Reach-iT. It is really ridiculous, IMO.
PS - the wiring in my Apple earbuds seems to be wearing out, so the microphone doesn’t work as well anymore. I’ve had them about 6 months. Anyone got a direct line to Steve Jobs so I can call and bitch him out?
Oh wait. That would be ludicrous. I use the dang things every day. And things wear out. Sort of like clamps do on waterfed poles. I’ll just buy some more.
You have to wait until apple releases the i-Ouija later this year. It’s supposed to have a bigger board but they’ll probably run out of stock opening night…
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