Have you ever tried TSP ?
I used to live In Sacramento (My Son was born there) and in Hollywood.
The pressure cleaners there used a water/TSP solution on cement tile roofs, then pressure washed it off.
TSP really whitens up a cement tile roof, as can be seen in these pictures.
It is not too good for the environment because if enough of it gets into lakes, rivers, and streams, it induces accelerated aquatic plant growth!
Thus, it was taken out of Moms laundry detergent.
But it is sold here in Florida for commerecial cleaning, and I dont think the every now and then use of TSP is gonna matter any to the environment.
It is a Fertilizer, so no worries about plants, except they may get greener, grow faster ?
We use it sometimes on shingle roofs too!
Chris, I don’t own any forums, you do. You had to start your own because you were banned from all the others for having an attitude problem.
This all started when someone asked for roof info. You pointed them to what you believe is a place for good info and I did the same. The difference is I did not bad mouth you, your forum or anyone that uses it. You cant win a debate so you call names and slander. I would have thought you learned a lesson by now.
I’ve given my .02 and refuse to be drawn into your petty games. Give the newbies all the info and let them decide for themselves which is best
LOL, JC, I am not “banned” from any Cleaning forums except for PT State.
ASK me if I care, either ?
That is a forum owned and run by a seller of cleaning equipment, and reads like one big Informercial, IMHO
I started my Roof Cleaning Forum because I wanted a forum where ALL I know about cleaning roofs was in one place.
It is kinda hard to be critical of chitty equipment on a forum RUN by the person who sells it, if ya know what I mean ;)h
It is a free forum too, BTW
Not run, or controlled by any equipment seller, or internet shills, where roof cleaning equipment is honestly evaluated by those of us who have “been and done”
There are far too many “politics” going down in some Forums for my tastes.
I am anti “national orginations” seeing them as what I feel they are, a freaking rip off of the poor cleaning contractor, but a hell of a party, for those at the top of the Pyramid.
I am about one thing, and one thing only, cleaning roofs, and teaching what I know about it.
THAT is my life, besides fishing,football, and MMA, etc, etc.
Gotta go, have big estimates to prepare, employees to get paid today :(, and a Super Bowl Party to buy steaks for, etc, etc:)…
Have a good day we will check out BTW.
Thanks
If you DO get into cleaning roofs, here is a great article for you to post on your roof cleaning blog, or website ?
Enjoy 
ALL ABOUT ROOF CLEANING
by Dr. Victor H. Morgenroth
Dr. Morgenroth is a Keys Gate resident who is a semi-retired, adjunct professor of neurology at UM. He was a principal administrator in the Environment Health and Safety Division of the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) for 20 years; prior to that I was a Group Leader in the Toxicology Division at the Center for Food Safety and Nutrition in the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Previously, he was on the faculty of several medical schools in neurology, pharmacology and psychiatry.
Having your roof cleaned actually makes sense. I know most of us were slightly put out by receiving a roof cleaning notice from the Keys Gate Management Association. Although it read a little like an ultimatum and you probably wondered who the inspector of your roof was and what their qualifications were, it turns out that roof cleaning is not a bad idea at all.
It isn’t just aesthetics. While people like to say that dirty roofs lower a property’s value and may make it hard to sell, the “dirt” on a roof actually shortens its life span and can even present a health hazard. Furthermore, the “dark stains” on a roof act as a sponge to absorb the sun’s heat, which causes a rise in the temperature inside a home or building, creating higher air conditioning bills.
The dirt isn’t just dust – It’s alive. Some of the black or very dark roof stains are caused by a resilient type of algae, Gloeocapsa magma (a type of blue-green algae commonly found in climates with warm, humid summers). The algae grow in standing water, as well as in our lakes and ponds. The algal spores are carried to our roofs from the water sources by the wind and birds, and then from roof to roof where it grows and feeds on the limestone filler in asphalt shingles and the real dirt on tile roofs maybe in some cases the tiles themselves. Worse still, as the algae grow, they retain water and foster the growth of other roof inhabitants.
The black stains are also very likely to harbor a number of molds or fungi. Unlike algae the fungi on our roofs lacks chlorophyll. They are unable to manufacture food from raw materials. So, it must get nutrition from some form of organic matter. To thrive, these heterotrophs, who used to be called saprophytes, also require a warm, humid environment.
Fungi normally begin their life cycle as an airborne spore that settles on roofs, especially the asphalt-shingle ones. The spores on the northern exposure of the roof stand a better chance of survival because that portion of the roof is the last part to dry after a rain or morning dew. This raises the humidity on the surface of the shingle, thus creating a perfect feeding and breeding ground.
The tar used in roofing is fossilized, dead organic matter – and an important food source for fungi. Asphalt, at the granule base, is normally consumed first. Once these granules dislodge, accelerated deterioration will occur. Ceramic granules represent the outer hard shell that protects against hail and other falling debris. Ceramic granules protect against damaging UV radiation and insulate the roof against extreme heat. So you can understand that their dislodgement by the growing fungal colonies can be detrimental to our roofs’ longevity. Surprisingly, the blue-green algae are also food for the fungi.
While not all mold (fungi) and algae pose a health danger, some are harmful, especially for us older folks, younger children and people who suffer from asthma and respiratory problems. Their spores, which are on your roof, can get inside your home because they end up on the driveway and walkways from rain, and are easily tracked inside. They can even be drawn into our air conditioning systems and eventually populate our ducts.
Different mold species can have varying health effects, but it is important to remember that any excessive mold growth needs to be taken care of, regardless of the species. Any excessive mold growth can lead to increased allergies, toxicity, and house/building structural problems.
For those interested, this box describes some of the most common fungi likely to be found on our roofs and their possible health effects. While “sick building syndrome” has been talked about frequently in the media, it isn’t always reported that this syndrome is often caused by faulty or leaking roof assemblies that result in fungal infestations. It isn’t, as reported, always due to chemicals in carpeting.
Don’t Panic!
Most of us have immune systems that are fully capable of resisting the effects of fungi described below. As a result it would be highly unlikely for any of us to suffer any of the ill effects described. But if fungal colonies are allowed to persist and multiply then the high concentrations of the molds and their volatile organic chemical metabolites might be sufficient to increase the risks from our exposure to them.
Stachybotrys chartarum (atra) molds can thrive on water damaged, cellulose-rich material in buildings such as sheet rock, paper, ceiling tiles, insulation backing, wallpaper, etc. In the majority of cases where Stachybotrys is found indoors, water damage has gone unnoticed or ignored since it requires extended periods of time with increased levels of moisture for growth to occur. Stachybotrys is usually black and slimy in appearance. Events of water intrusion that are not addressed quickly tends to support the growth of more xerophilic fungi such as Pencillium and Aspergillus.
Stachybotrys is another fungi that has the ability to produce mycotoxins, ones that are toxic and can be immunosuppressive. Exposure to these mycotoxins can result through inhalation, ingestion, and dermal exposure. Symptoms of exposure include dermatitis, cough, rhinitis, nose bleeds, cold and flu-like symptoms, headache, general malaise, and fever.
The Cladosporium genera of mold are pigmented dark green to black in the front, and black on the reverse with a velvety to powdery texture. One of the most commonly isolated from indoor and outdoor air, Cladosporium spp. are found on decaying plants, woody plants, food, straw, soil, paint, textiles, and the surface of fiberglass duct liner in the interior of supply ducts.
There are over 30 species in the Cladosporium genus. The most common are C. elatum, C. herbarum, C. sphaerospermum, and C. cladosporioides. These fungi are the causative agents of skin lesions, keratitis, nail fungus, sinusitis, asthma, and pulmonary infections. Acute symptoms of exposure to Cladosporium are edema and bronchiospasm, and chronic exposure may lead to pulmonary emphysema.
Aspergillus is the most common genus of fungi in our environment (it especially likes to grow on corn plants) with more than 160 different species of mold. Sixteen of these species have been documented as causing human disease. Aspergillosis is now the 2nd most common fungal infection requiring hospitalization in the United States.
Aspergillus fumigatus. The most encountered species causing infection. It is seen abundantly in decomposing organic material, such as self-heating compost piles, since it readily grows at temperatures up to 55 C. People who handle contaminated material often develop hypersensitivity to the spores of Aspergillus and may suffer severe allergic reactions upon exposure.
Aspergillus flavus. The 2nd most encountered fungi in cases of Aspergillus infection. It is also known to produce the mycotoxin aflatoxin, one of the most potent carcinogens known to man. In the 1960s, 100,000 turkey poults in Great Britain died from ingesting contaminated feed. Most countries have established levels for aflatoxin in food. However, the risks associated with airborne exposure are not adequately studied and no exposure standards exist.
Aspergillus niger. The 3rd most common Aspergillus fungi associated with disease and the most common of any Aspergillus species in nature due to its ability to grow on a wide variety of substrates. This species may cause a “fungal ball”, which is a condition where the fungus actively proliferates in the human lung, forming a ball. It does so without invading the lung tissue.
Fusarium spp.,common soil fungus and inhabitant on a wide array of plants, this fungi is often found in humidifiers and has been isolated from water-damaged carpets and a variety of other building materials. Human exposure may occur through ingestion of contaminated grains and possibly through the inhalation of spores. Fusarium spp. is frequently involved with eye, skin, and nail infections.
Several species can produce the trichothecene toxins which target the circulatory, alimentary, skin, and nervous systems. Vomitoxin is one such tricothecene mycotoxin that has been associated with outbreaks of acute gastrointestinal illness in humans. Zearalenone is another mycotoxin produced by Fusarium. It is similar in structure to the female sex hormone estrogen and targets the reproductive organs.
Penicillium fungi are commonly found in soil, food, cellulose, grains, paint, carpet, wallpaper, interior fiberglass duct insulation, and decaying vegetation. Penicillium may cause hypersensitivity pneumonitis, asthma, and allergic alveolitis in susceptible individuals.
The genus Penicillium has several species. The most common ones include Penicillium chrysogenum, Penicillium citrinum, Penicillium janthinellum, Penicillium marneffei, and Penicillium purpurogenum.
These fungi have been isolated from patients with keratitis, ear infections, pneumonia, endocarditis, peritonitis, and urinary tract infections. Penicillium infections are most commonly exhibited in immunosuppressed individuals.
In conclusion, during the digestion of substrates, fungi secrete enzymes into nutrients in order to break down complex compounds into simpler compounds that can be taken up by the fungi and used as nutrition. These digested nutrients produce secondary metabolic byproducts called mycotoxins that are released to give the fungi a competitive edge over other microorganisms and fungi. Unfortunately, mycotoxins can also be toxic to humans causing a variety of responses including cold/flu-like symptoms, sore throats, headaches, nose bleeds, fatigue, diarrhea, dermatitis, and immune suppression. Some mycotoxins may also be carcinogenic and teratogenic. Molds that have been known to potentially produce these toxins are Acremonium, Alternaria, Aspergillus, Chaetomium, Cladosporium, Fusarium, Penicillium, and Stachybotrys.
Even though these molds may potentially produce mycotoxins, they will not do so unless specific environmental conditions exist. Currently, it is unknown exactly what conditions promote the growth of mycotoxin production and more scientific research needs to be conducted on this topic for it to be fully understood.
So, what ratio of say Clorox Outdoors/water/surfactant or 10-12/5%/water/surfactant? directly applied would kill [I]gleocapsa magma?[/I]
And what prevailing conditions will make the roof look as good as it should after the chemical is applied?
Well, that all depends on the strength of your Sodium Hypochlorite. IF it is good and fresh SH, I have cleaned with as little as 25 percent of it to water, with some Ultra Gain Green Original Scent Liquid Dishsoap as a surfactant. Here is a good starting roof cleaning mix. For 100 gallons total mix, use 35 gallons sodium hypochlorite, 65 gallons water, and 1 large 44 oz bottle of the Gain Liquid Dishsoap I described above.
Forget all about the Outdoor Clorox Bleach. This is a great Forum to learn all about window cleaning! But the RCIA Forum Locate A Certified Roof Cleaner | Roof Cleaning Institute Of America is the best place too learn about roof cleaning, and the latest advances in roof cleaning methods, chemicals, and equipment. We have a free section open to the public, and a paid section where we hide our sensitive information from the general public. Membership costs 100 dollars a year, to help offset the cost of paying for the forum. Besides having access to ALL the forum, your membership gives you unlimited access to ME. I am always here to answer any and all my members questions at NO additional charges.
Plus, we offer Roof Cleaning Certification to those who study pass the test, and can demonstrate they know enough about our trade to warrant it.
Certification does work, and has been proven to be a successful marketing method in several other trades like Welding and Auto Repair.
I own a roof cleaning company in Tampa, one of THE most competitive markets in the whole USA.
This is a screen shot from a search for Roof Cleaning Tampa. You can see that potential customers here in Tampa are searching for the roof cleaning institute by NAME! Don’t believe it ? Do a search for Roof Cleaning Tampa, then Scroll down and you will clearly see the related searches for the search roof cleaning tampa!
People are searching for me (apple roof cleaning tampa), and are also searching for my forum, the roof cleaning institute!
LOL, these potential customers are most likely searching for the roof cleaning institute by name because I am expensive! I do not give my services away. I imagine these customers hope to go to my forum, and find another local certified roof cleaner who is cheaper then me!
I have trained more roof cleaners then any other persons in our Industry Combined. It has been my experience that you window cleaning guys do very very well, once you learn the inside secrets to cleaning roofs w/o pressure properly… I have several window cleaners here in Tampa who send me roof cleaning work… We look out for each other, and I return the favor by sending window cleaning jobs to them in return. Nothing against window cleaning, but roof cleaning is a much bigger sale, Some of the big tile roofs we clean are well over a thousand dollars! Chemical costs are usually well under 200 dollars. We just did a 4500 sq ft tile roof home right ON Tampa Bay, sent to us by a window cleaning company! We were in and out in less then 3 hours, total cost for the job was under 300 bucks, and profit was 1200 dollars! Not bad money, for 3 hours total work, huh ?
Unlike some so called “roof cleaning teachers” that IMHO are glorified equipment and chemical salesmen, my system does not require you to buy an expensive and unneeded soft washing skid. Nor do you have to buy My Chemicals. In fact, I don’t sell (or make) expensive equipment OR Chemicals. You will learn what are the best pumps, chemicals, and equipment to get to clean roofs with, and the best (cheapest) places to buy them from.
And, also, unlike some “teachers of roof cleaning”, I am STILL very much in the roof cleaning business here in the Tampa Florida area, and have been nearly 20 years!
The RCIA Forum is full of success stories of guys just like you guys, who are now incredibly successful in the roof cleaning business, because of the training and Certification we offer.
I find that window cleaners already HAVE a built in customer base to sell roof cleaning to, unlike guys who do not. If you want to double, even triple last years sales, I would like to add you to my ever growing list of RCIA success stories.
Thanks, Mr. Apple. I was only looking for a ratio and how long to expect to wait for the black stuff to disappear.
You are quite welcome Dan, glad to be of help to you! The mix will usually start working right away, and will always be “done” working in 15 minutes time, OR until it evaporates. A good way to tell if your mix is the right strength is this. You should always have to respray 20 to 25 percent of the roof. If all spots are gone the very first spray from entire roof, mix is too strong. If you spray and wait, and have to go over 25 percent of the roof again, it is too weak.
Strong is the dark side of the Force, do not give into the temptation (advice) to make your **** strong. Yes, it cleans the first time everytime, but the faster and “better” it cleans at strong mix strength, the more better it will kill plants too!
Do you have a dedicated roof cleaning pump Dan ?
The reason I ask is this. With smaller GPM pumps, one is almost forced to use a strong mix. This is why we never advise a low GPM pump for roof cleaning use. It is much better to “flood” the shingles with a weaker mixture. When using a small pump on a hot roof, the mix will start evaporating quickly, because you are unable to apply enough mix to cool it down, and stop evaporation. This is a very good reason WHY you want a pump with decent GPM. You also do not, under ANY circumstances, want 3/8 diameter hose hooked uo to any roof cleaning pump. Not only will that small hose find it’s way under the shingles, and easily rip the **** out of them when you pull on your hose, but small diameter 3/8 hose will choke your pump, robbing you of both flow, and pressure!
Be honest with me Man, describe your setup for roof cleaning. I will help you, if you like.
Thanks for the synopsis. Apparently I didn’t do an effective job. I just had one section of roof I was trying for a client who has me do windows and gutters. All I used is a pump sprayer (I know it’s not the way a pro does it. Not quite at the point where I can get a dedicated roof pump set up). I applied about a 50/50 with Clorox Outdoors and FW and also about 65/35 water to 10% SH and FW. Directly to the shingles. It doesn’t look significantly better and I reapplied to a good part of it again this past Thursday. No immediately noticeable improvement. Obviously I didn’t flood the surface, but I did completely saturate it. Do I simply need way more volume of liquid?
No problem with the pump up sprayer Dan. I bet some of you guys used only a squeege and a bucket, before you got water fed poles too!
You dont clean roofs for a living yet, you simply used what you could.
Here is where you went wrong! Straight Clorox Outdoors Bleach is barely strong enough to clean a roof, even at 100 percent!
You see, you added water to a bleach that was far too weak to begin with, depending on how FRESH the Clorox Outdoors Bleach was to start with. Clorox Outdoors is simply bleach, that has some extra sodium hydroxide added to it, to improve shelf life.
The ARMA (asphalt roofing manufacturers association) guidelines call for bleach AND TSP! TSP really does boost the cleaning power of bleach.
Here is what to do Dan, I want you to take a gallon of Clorox Outdoors, and buy some TSP. Make SURE it is real TSP (trisodium phosphate) and not TSP “substitute”. Read the label carefully, it is sold at Lowes, the real ****, here in Tampa.
Next, I want you to measure out 8 ounces of it in an 8 ounce cup, etc. Then, add it to your bleach, stri, and allow it to soak overnight. This is important to release ALL the cleaning and bleach boosting power of the TSP.
LOL, this mix will clean up most Drunks and drug addicts! Spray it on, and allow 10 to 15 minutes between coats. TRY to spray on a sunny day(the sun is your friend, and helps the bleach do it’s thing). The warmer the day the better, so keep this in mind. Forget about adding anything else to the formula I gave to you, except get some Ultra Gain Green Original Scent Liquid Dishwashing Soap, and add 1/2 of a cup to the mix AFTER it has soaked overnight. There is NO
substitute for the Gain Soap I suggested, so do not substitute dawn, or any dishwashing liquid soap that is on sale. Either buy what I said, or nothing at all. The Dishsoap will help the mix STICK better to the spots you are trying to remove. This increase in dwell time the Ultra Gain allows will help clean better, as well.
Bear in mind Dan, I am trying to make the best out of a not so good situation here. You really should get liquid sodium hypochlorite 12.5 percent, vs Clorox Bleach. Because it is cold outside now, it will most likely take several coats of the mix, so keep this in mind.
From what i understand, SH even labeled or sold at 12.5 is not truly 12.5 but closer to 10%. I for instance buy my SH from the local distributor who supply’s all of the pool stores 100s if not 1000s of SH going through this place in a weekly basis( probably a little less now that its almost December), and the lady there explained to me that they get it at 12.5, and it starts to loose life from there. Now the bottles of outdoor sh from your local box store that are marked at 8% are poured with 8% potency or life, but loose fast. Sh has a shelf life a of about what, 30 days if we’re talking perfect storing conditions?
So if someone wanted to begin cleaning roofs, what would they need to get started in terms of equipment/supplies (assuming they currently have nothing)? I’m not talking about going all out and dropping a couple grand on a “pro kit,” but something to start building with toward a pro set-up? Apparently, pressure isn’t something we’d want to use so I’m guessing a pressure washer would not be needed - so what pump/tank/gun/hoses/etc. would be needed?
For instance, could you start with something like this assuming it had a longer hose?
The Hose is too small, and so is the tank and pump. I suggest at least a 100 gallon tank, 1/2 diameter hose (5/8 is better) and a good 12 volt pump system like a Delavan Fat Boy, or a 5850 you can buy from Bob at Pressure tek in cleveland, or from Powerwash.com
you will need 200 ft of hose at least to start. Stay away from that Tractor Supply sprayer, seriously.
Yes, it starts out at 12.5 percent, but looses potency pretty fast, depending on storage conditions. To be IN our business, you will need a good supplier of it, in your area. I am near Tampa Florida, I can not help you where you live.
Oh, we have a great distributor nearby, close to as cheap of pricing as you can get in the country. I wish I could find something “green-er” for roof cleaning, but SH is the only option, and as of right now, nothing compares.
Appreciate the input.
