Awesome.
Why though will the acids not work?
Because the composition of silicate is close to the same as glass…like if you put HC or HF on clean glass…barring a tin reaction, nothing happens. I had a friend that sold sand…the fine pure white stuff to glass mfg’s…I have a client who’s house is on a riverbed and his well pulls through all those layers of sand…his shower looked as if someone sputter coated it with glass droplets…once the calcium was removed (one restore), silicate was left…and it was a bear to sand off…I think I did approx 15-20 sq ft…took 4 hours.
I remember Craig Aldrich saying something like the silicates, since they are the same as glass, are bonding to the glass (more silicates)
then as David said above, the acids dont remove ‘glass’ (silicates), since that would be, uh, a problem, burning holes thru windows melting them away, lol
I think of silicates as those Magic Rocks when I was a kid, the silicates are just building mountains as they keep landing on the same spot, growing out of the glass, like the old scary black and white movies: “it’s alive!”
Time, temperature and frequency all play a role, hot sunny glass with a sprinkler on it every day is always the biggest problem, right?
So it would mean those silicate rings are actually an accumulation and are [B]above[/B] than the rest of the glass. Rather than corrosion and those being pits [B]below[/B] the surface of the glass wouldn’t it?
I bet [MENTION=507]Henry[/MENTION] could add more . . .
Yes…and when sanding you are removing the “high” spots…once you get down to the surface your good. Pool water reacts different though and does etch a low spot…when I’ve sanded pool water staining…the flat high area on the glass is the part without staining and I’ve removed glass stock to get to the low area of the stain…pretty much the reverse of buildup.
David! That was awesome!! Thank you very much. Okay, so is there a way to know other than testing with onerestore if its going to be silicates as well?
Thor Man,
Excellent question and insight. Mineral deposits are essentially microscopic pieces of rock, or silicates. The element silicon is usually a part of the chemical formula of these minerals which are usually amorphous. How much of the runoff water is loaded with such minerals is measured in TDS or Total Dissolved Solids. They are deposited on the glass as water spots when the water drops evaporate. And do not necessarily cause glass corrosion. This is caused only if the ph of the water drops (as each evaporates) rises high enough. Usually nine. At which time there is an exchange reaction between certain atoms in the water molecules and atoms in the glass surface. Depending on which elements/atoms are exchanged the corrosion that happens is either a stage one or stage two. Also if the chemical reaction byproducts remain on the glass it is static. If the reaction byproducts are removed with the water as it runs down the surface then it is called dynamic. But again the minerals or TDS in the water usually only serves to raise the ph high enough so that an exhange reaction can take place between the atoms in the glass surface and the atoms in the water molecules. Another shorter way of putting this is mineral deposits cause glass corrosion but are not glass corrosion.
One time I took some spots that had some very well defined “rings”. That is the outer area of each spot was heavily loaded with dissolved solids. The middle area which I call the “basin” was almost clean. The spot rings had a certain shape to them. So I drew on a paper the shapes. Next I removed them with a polishing compound/cerium oxide optical grade. When I looked back where the spot rings were, I could see clear distortions of the glass surface, the shapes of which matched my drawings perfectly. You see as the water drops evaporate the outer edge is the last to go. And it holds at that time the greatest concentration of TDS. So the ph of the water drop at that time is at its very highest. It will easily cause glass corrosion. The minerals deposited will also sit on top of the part of the glass that has undergone corrosion. I should do a post on this in my blog. I did a newsletter on it many years ago. Came up with a an entire definitions list. Fun stuff. Essentially there are four different types of glass corrosion. Stage one dynamic, stage one static, stage two dynamic, and stage two static. This is text book stuff. Not the kind of stuff hard water spot removal product manufacturers pass around.
Wonderful!
I knew you would have some good stuff Henry, thanks for responding in such detail.
I just learned a lot more today. I love it. More answers for a comml job that was just asking too.
So Ph is what is really at the root of this time, temperature frequency thing it sounds like. That’s probably why shady panels on the north side respond better than panels in the sun on the south side would be my guess
and that’s why glass renu does such a good job, it just ‘lops off’ (‘sands’ off) a whole layer down to an unexposed and unaffected level for a fresh a start and hopefully a smart client who adjust sprinklers etc.
there seems to be this whole gray area of what will work best: between chemicals, Jflint micro powders and power tools versus just saying the heck with it and pulling out the ‘chainsaw’ (glass renu) as one way I illustrate it
Hi Bruce,
You are very complimentary. This is only retained knowledge however. Very little imagination. I was thinking also that the corrosion that usually results from the TDS is probably a stage two static etch. In which case the reaction byproducts (between the glass and water), remain on top too. So the surface has been corroded. Chemical byproducts sit on top. And mineral salts (TDS) are also sitting there too. Corrosion and the deposits are intensified over time as each new drop forms over the same old spot. And once again the greatest corrosion and deposit happens at the spot ring. The basins usually see very little action. Temperature is key in at least two ways also. The hotter the glass the more drops will form and evaporate on top of old spots in less time. Also temperature always increases the rate of chemical reactions. Guess it wouldn’t be nice to call someone an “Old Spot”!
Thank you VERY much Henry! I read your post 3 times.
So then, corrosion CAN and DOES take place in a static environment! What I’ve known to be true for a long time has been inaccurate.
That makes complete sense.
So then, let me ask…and I know a couple of ya are rolling yer eyes right now but hey, I was never accused of being smart so my apologies for being stubborn…
The person I had go out there with a scratch removal machine… by the way it was a scratch hog, he had many years of experience and came recommended from the company…he said there was nothing he could do.
I’m starting to think he wasn’t up for the monster job it was.
If you write this up in your blog, please let me know…you got a reader for life right here. Thank you.
Tory
