WFP Epic Fail!

So we got our WFP earlier this week. I practiced on my house with amazing results so I thought I’d take it to a customer’s house and try it out. The glass was hydrophobic so I knew right away it was going to be difficult since I had not had that problem with my house and hadn’t had the practice. Well I started by cleaning the frames on the 3rd story and then went back and hit the windows. First time. . . . . water spots everywhere. Second time . . . . . water spots everywhere. Third time. . . . . same. The owner came out and asked me to stop trying and just clean them the traditional way. We now have to go back on Memorial Day and clean them with our 40’ ladders. So much for a nice long weekend.

I made sure not to touch the top of the frames and yet I still couldn’t get a window to turn out right. I know I’m just starting but you would think after 3attempts the windows would at least get better. The TDS meter was reading 000 but still the spots showed up everytime.

Is this a common problem with hydrophobic glass or am I just that bad?

In some cases on hydrophobic glass you have to give the glass a longer period for the droplets to dissipate. If there was no dirt or matter on the glass then the issue was coverings or tinting or such, then hand washing probably was the best alternative.

I have customers tell me the droplets are still on the glass in certain situations from time to time. I always tell them they will dry eventually and not spot when they do because there is no minerals in the water. Bottom line is if your water is zero on the TDS meter then next you must question your scrubbing technique or the glass itself. Unfortunately not all surfaces you’ll run up against can be done with a water fed pole.

wfp’s are not the answer for all and most window cleaning gigs, the guys who have perfect results are the guys who have there clients on a sweet schedule, Like i said in my earlier posts, you will get some kind of spotting on certain windows and glass.

btw, how did you rinse those windows? did you rinse the glass like a hydrophillic glass or did you rinse every square inch of the glass like you should when you rinse Hydrophobic glass.

You might want to try fan jets when you run into Hydrophobic glass.

But if you did the glass with a strip washer and squeegge you would have had a happy customer with repeat business, but you did it with a wfp and now the home owner has to waste another day getting his/her windows done and you have to work on a holiday weekend.

All you wfp users go ahead and attack me, i am ready for you.

yes, i am sober right now.

If he removed all the dirt from the frames and glass and used fan jets and rinsed proper and still has spotting then the problem is the glass. It may be self cleaning coating or green glass as I call it. If you have a spotting problem a simple answer is to go over the glass with a doodle pad with microfiber towel on a pole which will easily remove spots. The windows are free of any dirt so no need to climb a 40 ft ladder and risk a fall. Not to mention you are leaving soap film on the glass and dragging that heavy ladder around the house. WFP is a safety issue, eco friendly and time saver.

(the guys who have perfect results are the guys who have there clients on a sweet schedule)
I clean all windows with wfp. Some are every 2 weeks and some are five years apart. I get the same results on both. The five years just takes more time and water to get the same results. The is true with the traditional method also.

I just did a house yesterday that hadn’t been done in a year. This was the first clean w/ a wfp and it turned out great. The patio doors were hydrophobic and they turned out great. When I run into a problem like this I just pole (traditional) the bad window and then, no problem.

Yeah I completely blame myself for this. I know it was my scrubbing technique or not rinsing it enough. I’ve only had the pole a couple days so obviously I’m to blame. I was just curious if any of you have had this problem before.

I do have a brush with fan jets but didn’t have it with me yesterday. I just read about the fan jets on hydrophobic glass and may take it back monday and just try it out on a few windows.

Luckily the home owners were incredibly understanding and said we could come back anytime. Our schedule is so full the next few weeks I decided monday would work best. There were so happy they are making us lunch on monday while we finish.

Hi Trevor,
Good luck with the fan jets. I would bet good money that the fan jets will solve your worries.

Doug, I couldn’t help but laugh at your post. "Yes, I am sober right now."
I do agree with you, the water fed pole is over-used on many residentials. (Atleast in California.) The way the homes are designed out here with so many windows over roofs and patios etc, it just doesn’t save time. Also, walkways that are 3’ wide or less with a lot of plant are nearly impossible to drag hose around houses. It’s just not worth it unless the home is 3 stories, has cut-ups, or the frames and sills are so dirty that they need alot of water flow to clean them up.

Don’t get me wrong, the wfp is one of my best investments. It’s just not the holy-grail

Probably stupid question but what is hydrophobic glass?
How do I know that the glass is hydrophobic just by looking at it?
If somebody could explain that to me I would appreciate that

If the glass is hydrophobic then the pure water will not sheet when you use the water fed pole, it will bead up. You’ll be able to notice right away. Most of the troublesome glass I run into that is hydrophobic has a covering of some type on it. I sometimes still use the water fed pole on it and just check it well prior to ending the job. Essentially all it means is that the surface is not water loving. If it were, then it would be hydrophilic.

Mateo - hydrophobic.

For all you first time wfpers - just scrub with porcupine sleeve first & then wfp off while still wet. It saves time in the long run.

[ame=“Hydrophobic Glass - YouTube”]YouTube - Hydrophobic Glass[/ame]

We WFP’d a house last year that hadn’t been cleaned in 8 years and the windows came out perfect. Even I couldn’t believe it. A lot of figuring out the WFP is learning when it will work and when it won’t. I still haven’t figured it out completely or mastered my technique.

2 types of glass hydrophobic and hydro phillic a phobia is a fear of water so I guess that the one that sheets is phobic . Right ? The one that sheets - no problem, the one that beads,- there seems 2 be 2 types, one that forms droplets but dries perfect and the other one we all dont like - one that leaves small white residue marks at the rate of 8 per 4 square inch.
Its then further complicated my Mrs customer who applies a coating to her glass in a mistaken idea that it helps to clean her windows called wyndex etc The worst type of spotting occurs if you put a petrolem/ silicone based polish which the double glazing installers are intent on doing somewher along the production line. Before you ask the coatings are there forever.

A BIG word of caution DO NOT USE THE S(pot) word in front of customers abolish it from your vocabulary.


The Electric Window

Posts: 2089
Ruthin. North Wales
Re: Zap the spots- together ?
Reply #50 - Apr 18th, 2007, 8:55pm Ahh nearly a year gone by, brought this back up cause I have a bit more to add.

Fantastic weather last 4 weeks means dusty glass, today wall to wall blue skies brought big problems on houses I have been doing for a long time. Hphobic glass left large dust type spots. I had never used karlos’ gg3 trick scrub, but tried it again on one side of a few windows, gave a good scrub left it soak gave it another good scrub then a good rinse. On some of the ground floor, I squeegeed the water off to leave a pristine finish and then sprayed pure water back on to watch what happened next. … Still small milky spots.

So started thinking about a rebuild hall I do that had wonderful new plate glass installed that sheeted perfect …untill the brother in law builder got there.
He had splattered concrete on the glass upstairs and down and before I had chance to do anything used a stanley tool to try to scratch it off and ruined the glass forever by leaving scratches all over some of the ground floor glass. Realising his mistake he then proceeded to use liberal quanities of brick concrete acid all over them to remove the dried on concrete. There are only two windows left now that sheet, the only two windows that he forgot to clean. I have ever since had problems with the milky spots but the customer accepts them.

So if your still following me, I am wondering if its the acid that is absorbed into the glass and ruins the sheeting surface in someway. Once upon a time the double glazing industry used DI water to dip clean the glass before they stuck the two layers together and Pre 70s glass always sheets. I believe that many now just dip the glass in acid instead cause its quicker to clean and get a cleaner job for them. Pilks sell glass as it comes off the float run and its H/Phillic cause I asked them. So the DG industry by using acid may be the root cause of all our problems also compounded by “polishing” the glass with a petroleum based product after installation.

Some, only some DG suppliers glass always sheets but most always bead ?
Any comments ?
Taken from this old topic on a uk forum
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Thank you all for explaining that to me:)

A hog hair brush and fan jets help, but if the windows were caulked with sincone it will be years befor they come out right
Phil Alexander