Bad results from WFP. Whats up?

Hey Everyone,
:confused:
Just got a tucker pole a couple weeks ago and was pretty stoked. Did one customers house and she was appalled at how much water was being used. I was a little concerned too. We promote our business as Eco-friendly and use biodegradable cleaners across the board so using all that water isn’t exactly Eco-friendly. Also the second hose which is used for rinsing just sprays all over the place , no control, the breeze blew the water all over the neighbors windows and windows I’d just done. Next I did a new customers house and had some pretty bad drippage from the top seals. I know I shouldnt wash the top seals but I can’t leave a dirty line across the top right?Last but not least did a regular customers(every week) house. The soap lines from all the times it was done with the squeegee were left . One window looked like a tic tac toe board! Talked to a guy at Tucker he said just to keep scrubbing those windows until it comes off. I scrubbed obsessively 4 times and rinsed 4 times to no avail! Any comments ideas? In the end the WFP is wasting my time!

For starters it sounds like you have a dual hose Tucker? If so…LOSE the 2nd hose,its about as useless as **** on a bull.

Also…look into getting 108 S smaller orifice flow screws for your Tucker… it will help cut down drastically on excessive water usage.

These days single hose is really the only way to go.Yes…you need to scrub really good especially on 1st time cleans,another thing is…when rinsing sometimes its better to give it the initial scrub & rinse then go back & give it another rinse leaving about a 1/2" gap from the top of the window.

Those things in themselves should help cut back on all the problems your experiencing.

I don’t know how exactly much water you used (+/-0.5GPM?), but why would that amount be considered un-Eco-friendly?

BTW, do you turn the water off when moving between windows?

I had the same problems with my tucker pole. the first thing I would do is stop using the sprayer on top. I have 5 poles and only my tucker has that on it. Second you only need .5 gpm to clean with a pole try to turn down the water it makes less of a mess and saves on water. as far as the stripes on the window they will go away with time. I had to re clean some window today because of the same thing, dont give up I hope this helps.

To add to what Lar said i wanted to make clear that when i said lose the 2nd hose i meant the fan spray nozzle and go strictly through the brush. Also purchase a shut-off valve its about 20.00 bucks,this way you can turn off the water supply while moving from windows and from front to back & side to side.

Cant get more Eco-Friendly then pure water;)

Sorry to hear of your frustrations, but if its any consolation, we have all been through it. I would remove(or at least stop using) that over the top fan sprayer. It will only cause you problems with water going above the windows and bringing down contaminates. Also, check out this video. http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=reach+higher+ground&sitesearch=video.google.com#
Its basic, but shows technique. Third, I would call and get the smaller flow screws for that pole and conserve alot of water that way.
Good luck and stick with it. Maybe just ‘practice’ on your house for a while.

[gvideo]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5873100574386552925&q=reach+higher+ground&ei=7JVbSJj6DI_UqALSk-jkDg[/gvideo]

I brought Shawns video into frame here… to show his technique its very good. Just keep in mind the wfp is a great tool but it really cant be used in all situations. If at all possible try to practice your technique in a controlled setting ( your house, or maybe a friends) The flow screws like Craig mentioned will help as well.

The biggest problem we have had in Europe is users thinking its a magic wand that anyone can pick up from day one expecting it to work, leaving the windows perfect. Many window cleaners in the UK inform their clients that it may take 2 or 3 cleans for the windows to come right, informing them that old soap & grime is the problem. Although this may be a great time saving in the UK due to monthly accounts, in other countries this is just not possible including myself.
I was still suspect after 3 months of cleaning & learnt that results don’t come over night. The “learning curve” is much the same as using a squeegee, knowing which windows it will be perfect on & which may be problem windows. I myself, hardly ever use wfp on wooden windows for reasons I’ll keep to myself.
I always try to trad’ the windows first time round & even after 6 months or so, find the wfp does a great job from thereon. Once the initial preperation of any window or surface is cleaned right, the wfp follows through with tremendous speed on the second clean. There are ways of doing a wfp first clean well, but it takes a lot of patience & observation to see where the problems will arise, and also a lot more accessories. For me - the first clean wfp takes the same time as doing it traditionally. All great workman know that preparation is the key to get any job right.
If you had left the windows to dry out & scrubbed another 4 times, I’m sure the job would have come up a lot better. I found when I first started the top frame was the biggest problem. There are still heated debates over the pond whether to clean the top frame or not. Maybe spend a day or so wih an experienced user so you can get over the learning curve quicker - its well worth it.

How well would that technique work if those were true divided lights, would it take a lot longer

Here is forum member Sethfenster hittting off some true divide.

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Thanks everyone.

Your comments and advice are really appreciated. Well I use the same technique the guy uses in the first video and what I did was scrub a few and rinse and then do a few more and wait for the others to dry. Then I would check from inside on the first batch. I did this about four times for each set of windows. My question is, How can I charge a customer if the windows arent perfectly clean? I should wait until the fourth service and then just charge him when the soap residue is finally gone? I stopped using the 2nd hose and just rinsed with the single hose eventually. Here in Southern California there is an on going drought and people(myself included) are very concsious of how much water we use. Compared to traditional methods the WFP is far less eco-friendly. Even though there are no chemicals used the ammount of water is the issue. Thanks for everything and I guess it just takes time to master like anything else.

By the way I did add a valve to shut off between windows

Hi Clearchoice, did I mention I use GG4 - this is because I find that it doen’t leave a film like dishsoap or other wc soap. Sometimes on a really bad or first clean I’ll stick the porcupine on a pole with GG4 before I wfp - this has no effects on the after finish.

Myself & Jeff have been working on a new brush head for a while now - that does the job for first time cleans. However we have been at a cross-road since the start of the year at which direction to take it. Also with my telecommunication problems & other factors we hope to get it out sooner or later. Sorry I can’t be of more help at the moment. I’m sure Alex & Chris will be the first too stock once we get it on the road.

Not sure where in So Cal you are but…if you want to learn how to use that pole correctly look me up!

I’d be more then happy to help you pimp that pole and show you various techniques.Not to get off the beaten path here…but we’ve been going HOT & HEAVY with the pure water cleaning.

Dont buy into the issue of this so-called drought until it really becomes an issue.Dont mention to clients just do your job your the professional not them!

Jeff that posts on here , from the UK has been doing this a long time and has developed some water saving techniques that Im sure he will share when he sees this post, i think he has it down to about 1/2 liter ( 1 pint) of water per window, I think:confused:

I’m down to a pint a minute, sometimes less.

So am I Karl, i was getting terrible heartburn

:smiley:

When are you off to Ireland?

When I diy-ed my first backpack 10 years ago I worked out that I could carry about 10-15 Litres of water in it, so worked out my useage from there and realised that I would have to conserve water from the beggining.
I decided to restrict the flow by using microbore 1/4"ID hose and decided that 100ft should do it and measured the flow per min. Then I set about finding some nozzles and tried all the various colors in the Hozelock mocro irrigation range. They all have slightly different flow rates and settled on through the brush supply with yellow spray nozzles. After a year I wanted to go ott but the yellow nozzles spreyed everywhere bringing down dirt from the window heads. Eventually I tried pencil jets by taking the small covers off I found I got a fine pencil jet and got the angles to spray right on the top of the bristle tips so that with a little pressure I could spray through the brush or with light pressure over the top. I still use them like this today thats 4 small pencil jets the edge ones keep the “corners” clean

Ok thats the background. So I used a backpack - all the time and found it was really quick. I started just cleaning the tops only and Trading the bottoms because my customers had never ever heard of a wfp ( neither had I ) We put up with each other and I became quite skilled using a flow rate of only 1/3 L just over 1/2 UK pint At this point I should add that I do not do frames unless its an extra and that over here we have programmed our customers into having 1 or 2 monthly maintaenance cleans so can get away with small ammounts of water I tried 1/2 L but that meant time and refilling the pack.
So thats what I use now 1/2 -3/4 pint per minute max, Its a figure I started and grew up with, it can be done but it takes patience. 10 gallons a day. Less weight/petrol useage less RO/DI and expense - but I now use rainwater for over 1 year. In previous years droughts I started advertising that I could clean a house with less than 1/2 a bucket of water.
Hope this helps you rethink how you could also turn the flow down a bit and save some water.

Thanks everybody.

I guess I’ll just really work on making my work with the pole as efficient as possible and practice on my own house until ive got the water usage down to a bare minimum. I really appreciate the help!