California Window Cleaners with Workers Comp who do you use?

The Office
1

I just recieved a quote from state fund who I was told is the cheapest for workers comp one employee making 20k per year has a premium of $4,600.

Does that sound high? Who do you use? The policy is under janitorial services code 9008-1

Any suggestions or better prices out there?

2

State Fund isnt the cheapest, they are the only game in town. I’ve shopped the crap out of it and no one will carry work comp for window cleaners but state fund. ~20% of payroll is norm. I do believe though that Colm from the clear choice just got a policy through his payroll company ADP I think it’s called for 18%. Not much less but that might give you at least one more option. It’s expensive to do things right.

3

Sounds about right…I got a 5k quote last year for a guy making under 20k.

4

And they wonder why businesses are not hiring…

5

Yeah Im with ADP at 17.85%. They originally told me 12% a couple months ago but I dont know what happened with that. Anyways, yes its frickin expensive to grow your business. For me its more about taking more time off and having energy to enjoy life. The extra hand is worth it.

What ADP offers VS State Fund is that its pay as you go, meaning each payroll. Also no down payment. State Fund wanted an $1800 down payment. I said no way.

6

yea $1500 bucks down. I was getting excited to hire someone but now I don’t know

7

Hi Colm,

Thanks for the information. Do you know if your works comp policy is actually through ADP or if they just brokered it? I’m having a heck of a time finding something reasonable. Also would you mind providing me with contact information for the guy you go through please?

Thank you,

Jeff Likes
Jeff Likes Clean Windows
Home

8

Ok, so update on this. I have my policy through ADP, but its brokered to Liberty Mutual. They got me the policy based on showing that I have a payroll of $85,000 which is false, but I guess they stated that to obtain the policy. So without me realizing this I am now paying state assessment fees based on $85,000. That means 5.5% of $85,000 instead of 5.5% of my actual payroll of $20-$25,000.

So now Im totally ****ed and feel like Im getting raped every payday. Im trying to get to the bottom of this and make sure Im refunded once its shown how much my payroll actually is. This week for example Im paying my guy $240 and Im paying $235.00 in payroll, taxes,workers comp and fees. WTF???

9

WOE! I just signed up with them and ran my first payroll yesterday. My wc is still with state fund until the next payroll but they told me it was gonna be 15%, thru 5 star or something but it aint done yet.

So far I’m happy with them but if they pull that on my I’m screamin from the mountain tops to anyone that will listen. How do you pay that much! Didn’t you call your rep Colm? What did he say?

10

uh oh i did adp also

11

Just make sure you look at what the estimated assessment fees are gonna be.

12

So a follow up on our situation, after working with two different brokers and being denied by about 12 different insurance carriers we’re signing up with State Fund at 24.09% because they’re the only ones who will cover us (who we’ve found). Apparently payroll of $20,000 is too small of beans for these other companies (which may be why they overstated your payroll to $85k to get that rate - hopefully you get refunded the difference), but our guy says the risk of us climbing on ladders is too great even at under three stories to be insured, and yet it’s required. UGH! Annoying but apparently our only option. I will keep checking back to see how ADP turns out.

Thanks for the input!

Jeff Likes
Home

13

We have had State Fund in CA for about 3 years. 21.77% is the rate give or take a few small percentage points each year.
My brokers have shopped us around each year and everyone refuses to write us a policy. Too small as well. We heard about the wholesale ability of ADP and gave it a shot and their regular guys wouldn’t write us a policy but then they found Farmers and had us at 12% until they did further investigation and revoked the policy the day after they offered it. It was frustrating. I think the rep with ADP was trying to mention how we don’t work on ladders in order to write a policy and after seeing pics of us in boom lifts and on roofs on our website they decided to revoke it.

Either way, it is very expensive being with State Fund and makes you think that we are in the wrong business. Should be selling insurance…

14

Hi Brian,
State Fund is the highest price carrier in California and is the absolute last resort. I write through every Work Comp carriers and have found a few that are roughly 40% less.
Unfortunately in your case, you do not generate enough premium for these carriers and would be declined. If your payroll reaches 100,000 or more you will have more option open to you.

The best of luck to you.
Sincerely,

15

Hi Jeff,
I believe you have received some bad information. If you are working under three stories you have option other than State Fund.

Sincerely,

16

There is no solution for the small window cleaning company in California when it comes to workers comp. That’s why there are no large window cleaning companies in California.

17

How big do you think a legit company can be?

18

I know of one company in my area that has about 5 trucks on the road but I KNOW they are not 100% legit. The owner has told me so himself. So who knows?

I had this discussion yesterday. According to what I have been told so far, (and I could be wrong I’m still looking into it) unless you are doing 60 to 80k in payroll your only option is State Fund @ 23%. That’s where the problem lies. Any extra profit that you could make to grow your business to actually have that kind of payroll is being eaten up by State Fund. So it’s a catch-22.

I think Bruce got a lower rate but I don’t know all the details. I don’t like to come across as being negative because I’m not, but, it really is a no-win situation for window cleaning business [B]growth[/B] in California. Someone prove me wrong, please. But, as it is now that’s why I’m actively looking to start an additional business that has long-term growth potential. Now excuse my while I head off to work. I’d send the guys out to do it but I can’t afford the workers comp. ; )

19

throwing that in the simple numbers template will show what revenues or pricing needs to be for that to be a moot point and still meet that ideal of 10-15% pretax profit

problem is . . . what the pricing needs to be . . . to make it all work

which leads to . . . what the marketing needs to be . . .to make what the pricing needs to be to make it all work

You’ll probably have a better day in the field, then cracking this nut today, Damian :slight_smile:

20

I understand your frustration and unfortunately I see the rates being increased over the next year for almost all industries. There are other option, even for the smaller window cleaning business but it does come down to the max height exposure as well as payroll.

I was able to give a rate of just over 11%, which included the cost of payroll service to a window cleaner who does up to 10 stories.

There are options!