Did I make a bad job post?

The Office
1

I am getting busier and need help. I have 2 GREAT guys working with me, one I met here and the other worked with me when I was a teacher. They are both PT and I need an FT and them to grow my business and create the kind of schedule I want for myself and the employees. Below I’ll put what I posted on the job’s link to Craig’s List. I’ve had 9 responses and only one did what was asked at the end. The others focused on $10 and all cursed me out and threatened me for paying so low or smelling like weed/cigarettes! The thing is that I never put a cap on what I would pay an experienced cleaner, people seems to focus on the limiting or perceived negative factors rather than the expansive possibilities. That said, I would appreciate feedback to know what I could have written differently.
Ron
The post:
Seeking helper for established window cleaning business. We have four (4) basic rules: 1. Treat everyone with COURTESY and RESPECT 2. Do the work SAFELY 3. Do the work RIGHT 4. Do the work FAST

Must be able to demonstrate competency in working safely in residential and commercial window cleaning settings, arrive to work on time and stay throughout the shift, demonstrate proficient window cleaning techniques and proper ladder usage. Window Cleaning experience is preferred but we are able and willing to train a high character candidate.

We conduct background checks and drug testing (should you arrive at work smelling like cigarettes, marijuana or any other offensive odors you will be sent home).

The minimum starting pay is $10 per hour (after training period) but increases based on your skills and the work volume you perform. This is a position with upward mobility as we are an established business that is growing and we want to create leadership positions.

Please follow these instructions to apply for the positions (use Craig’s List email) feel free to copy and paste these questions in the reply:
Fullname:
Full Address:
Phone number:
Email address:
Citizen/Greencard/Work visa:
Felony convictions (I will do a background prior to hiring):
How many years of window cleaning experience do you have and where did you work:
List your previous window cleaning supervisors name and phone number:
Other work histories up to five (5) years, please list why you left the job:
Why do you want to continue or start working in window cleaning?

2

Way too busy and way too much red tape.

You will never hire anyone for $10 an hour (MAYBE $10 per hour, if they make it past the “training”) with all those stipulations.

If 9 year has taught me anything, cast a wide net. A pulse, the ability to acknowledge English commands and no needle sticking out of their arm. The proper candidates will present themselves when you remove the hurdles.

5 Likes
3

thank you for the feedback. I’m removing a lot of the wording.

4

I have to ask, I understand the smelling of the marijuana or cigs, but to drug test someone for smoking weed seems so old now? If the person can do above and beyond and doesn’t smell like it, who cares if they smoke pot? If the person has a old conviction or was a crime of teenage rebellion or stupidity why bar them from a better future they are striving for?

People make bad decisions and a lot of the times other people cause other people problems.
Im just curious how this hiring process involves so much personal aspects? If someone drinks alcohol all the time, but handles themselves right, and never goes to work after or during drinking. Hows that different then changing the word alcohol to marijuana.

I know someone who was just turned 18, had a girlfriend who was 17 because she hadn’t had her birthday yet, another female friend got jealous, kid became a sex offender for a short time (due to circumstances he had that removed) however he is still a felon based on the having sex with a minor. Should he be punished from getting a job?

If you find this to be the wrong place to ask you this, please text me at 503-508-3488 and ill delete this reply. : D Thanks

1 Like
5

I’ll still do the drug testing etc. but in an effort to “cast a wide net” this is the Updated ad:
Seeking a Fulltime or several part-time helpers for established window cleaning business. We are 90% residential cleaning.

No experience is required. We will pay you $10 per hour during training. If you are an experienced cleaner we can negotiate a fair market value. Must have reliable transportation to the start of shift location.

Please reply your NAME & PHONE NUMBER

I do fear that removing hurdles to get more applicants will result in a great deal of wasted time. All to help bucket bob wanna-be’s feel safe applying and prevent me getting sued for having good character requirements of my employees. Someone responded before I made the change that I was being racist for asking “Citizen/Greencard/Work visa:” and another said I was discrimination against “a whole class of legal drug users and f#$% you greasy BAs$%^& fro not be fair!” REALLY!?!?! I can’t ask if they are legally permitted to work in the country? Sure pot is legal, so is drinking but working under the influence is a HUGE liability.

6

I agree. Use weed all you want. I am pro-medical pot and legal age pot. The drug test is for hard drugs, not weed. Legal in Nevada. I follow the law that if you smell of alcohol or weed you are tested for your level and can be charge with DUI. You can use it and not smell like Sylvester the skunk.
I hired a guy in the past with the exact scenario you described except the girls parents got him in trouble because their ‘good-girl would not do that willing’ type of thing. He turned out great. That was a different line of work and I do 90% residential and 90% in gated communities. My clients on a nearly daily basis ask if I did background checks on the guys with me. The former owner and myself were sole-props but I want to expand. I thought giving a heads-up would save me some time, but I’ll do that once someone shows up for an interview.

2 Likes
7

Thanks, one of the better ways to answer my questions, Thanks for the info. Some day I may hire 1-2 employees so I’
m just getting other owner point of views.

8

When you are employing people, YOU are taking all the responsibility for your workers. A lot of times, your INSURER will tell you, that you can’t employ felons or have anyone using illegal narcotics or you void your coverage.

In my state, pot is illegal. so no way an employer will hire you if they test. If they don’t test, they are taking all responsibility for your actions during work hours. Same with hiring a felon. IF by some chance you do, and they do something, you are at fault.

I’m all for giving people chances, if they deserve one. But I understand also the liability a employer is taking on too.

3 Likes
9

There have been some discussions over the years about hiring people with tattoos as well.
My feeling is that whether you agree, disagree, don’t care about that and the subject of this thread, you probably want to strike a balance with how your customers receive you and those who represent you. At least for me, it figures into the equation.

2 Likes
10

You should be picky but $10 an hour does seem low.

1 Like
11

Window Guys LV

I dont think you have too much wording or too many hurdles to jump over for a prospective employee. You pared it down, then mentioned that you may waste alot of time with the applicants. It’s ok to set the bar high and screen like crazy. These are the people that will represent you and your business if you hire them. So who do you want?
Someone with a pulse and a faint smell of weed?
Or someone that cares and presents themselves professionally?

we screen the hell out of potential applicants. And even make it hard for them to apply.
Most people business owners want to hear the phone ring with interested people, or get tons of resumes emailed in.
but like you said, it can be a huge time waster.

Wouldn’t it be much better to get only a few applicants to interview, but have those few be very qualified?

A big part of you job hiring is to disqualify people.
I’m guessing you are busy, and that’s why you need to hire. So,
Done waste your time interviewing folks that dont meet your standards.

Our screening process looks like this. At every step, I’m looking for a reason to tell a person “Nope”

  1. post a long ad on CL and indeed. Boost it. Pay $25 - $50 a day
  2. anyone interested has to call a 3 minute recorded message to hear about the company and the culture and answer questions.
  3. They leave a message on our recorded message line.
  4. I listen to the message. If they followed all the directions, I call them back for a 3 - 4 minute phone interview.
  5. If they really are sharp, they get an interview.
  6. The interview is an hour long and thorough.
  7. I review my notes and impressions with my production manager.

At that point, we make an offer or not.

It looks like a long process, but it takes very little time.
5 minutes to post an ad.
10 minutes to review messages and call back.
2- 3 hours of interviews.
1 quality hire.

Last time I took resumes and did lots of interviews, I had 54 people
to call back, screen and schedule. We did 16 interviews, and in total,
spent 29 hours to hire 4 guys. Lots of time wasted.

Dont lower the bar or your standard.
Screen out people ruthlessly and only interview / hire people that are A players.

Soooo. The only thing I would lchange is to leave out
“should you arrive at work smelling like cigarettes, marijuana or any other offensive odors you will be sent home”

And put a pay range in there, like:
“The pay is $10 - 16+ per hour depending on performance”

Hope this helps.
Sid

4 Likes
12

I’ve left the changes to allow the most applicants through the pipeline and raised the pay to $15 hours for anyone with a years experience and I’ve gotten only a few truckers and more cursing rants with their number at the end saying if I offer real money call them. I had a working interview at a large building I clean. I invited seven repliers to come and clean and all seven said they’d be there. Had 2 show up. Both said they had experience and neither did. I’m ready to just have my one pt helper be it and do solo when he goes to work. I want to hire him FT but he has a good job with the state that gives him a great retirement.

13

In my area, many employers struggle to find good, dependable workers. I know many people will say they want a job they enjoy, but the reality is, people only really seem to stay somewhere very long if they are compensated well and treated well.

I don’t know what other window cleaning employers are paying their people, but you may want to find that out. It kinda sounds to me like you are not in the position at this point to compete with what others are paying. If you are getting that many responses about paying more, I’d have to wonder if the others are paying that much more.

Why not consider more part time employees? It may not be the solution you want, but it might help your situation.

1 Like
14

I have had much more success with networking with other business owners than posting online. Most of the online applicants are just a waste of my time. I’m sure some of them are only “applying” to check the block for sustaining unemployment benefits or something similar.