heck Kevin, you did not irritate me. I get irritated because there is always someone that comes along with a big fish story. They LOVE to make marketing sound sooo easy and make people like me [B]and[/B] you seem fanatical about marketing.
Some are like “see, i don’t need to have a good offer, words or anything. Just a string of flowers”
You are very passive with this, I am never passive. I also do not bs. I want these other business owners on here to make the most money they can with least resistance. When questionable claims are stated, I question them.
That is why I say “steal” Crazy’s flier. Find out what return awaits and get back to what works. I WISH it was as easy as adding some color, I really do.
You would NEVER use the flier that Crazy has, I just admit it. I don’t pat him on the back because I do not believe his results.
The story mixed with a meaningless flier mixed with the description of his target does not make sense. If it does not make sense there is something fishy.
I have a question for all of you. Let us pretend for a minute that you find a flier in your door. You look at it and it is the exact same flier as Crazy’s only it has different pictures and a one word change-
[SIZE=“4”][COLOR=“Red”]Professional House Cleaning
$79[/COLOR][/SIZE]
Are any of you honestly going to tell that based on the “wow” colors you would go to the phone and call?..
(Good job side-stepping my response question, but have you ever been close to 20%? To a cold target?)
here’s a question…if you had live in a city your whole life and had never received a flier for window cleaning at your door, or had never even thought that people did clean house windows professionally…would it really matter what the flier said?
Are you kidding?.. that could be the silliest thing I have ever heard. I have NEVER received a flier about a service that cleans dog crap. I have 3 big dogs. If I got your flier type with pooper scooper as the service I do not think I would call. I would think “I can clean it up. Why pay for someone to do that?”
also, why did your 2nd flier bomb if that is the reason?
Because they never have seen one means almost nothing. I get a 3% response in MEGA competition. Your 2nd flier got 0 in 0 (allegedly)
I personally trust Eric’s story as being 100% accurate. He’s not on here to impress anyone, and has no hidden agenda.
Why fudge the numbers? All I keep hearing/seeing from him is modesty and a desire to share and help. I have a difficult time assigning “deceit” to that kind of mix…
Anyway - it’s your right to believe he’s trying to fool us all, but I don’t believe it.
With respects to the “Have I ever achieved 20% response to a cold-call prospect?”, my answer is no, I haven’t, in my local market.
I’m gunning for less than that this Spring, myself, and will be very happy with 10%, but who knows, maybe my little goose has laid the golden egg this time around, right?
What are you using for a flier this Spring? Share something, man.
Kevin, my sharing days are over (at least when it comes to my personal stash) Besides, it is well known that my way of marketing just does not work…
everybody has an agenda now don’t they
This may be unpopular, but when it comes to business I am about money. If I can’t improve my (or anyone elses) profit margin or volume. It is a waste of my time. Do I care about great customer relationships and giving them more than they paid for? That is a MASSIVE part of my business foundation- to over-deliver.
My personality may be brash, but I never tell people to do anything that I would not do myself. I never sit on the fence in hopes of not ticking people off. I NEVER inflate anything I say. I like cold, hard, REAL numbers and there is nothing I would like to see more than the window cleaning industry standards and practices rise to a high value, high quality machine.
I know a lot more about marketing than most on here only because I love it. I want more and more. I [B]love[/B] the trial and error. I am not trying to build a rep to sell these guys on here anything. I am not better than anyone on here in running a business or running my life. I am a total mess in many areas.
I love marketing and love to see peoples businesses and lives change because of it. Reading about a company that advertises in the Wall Street Journal and decide to change 1 word in a full page ad and get 5 times more response, is amazing to me.
How many on here care about that? Not many. Should they? you bet.
They could be one word away from 5 times the response of their postcard or flier. That is nothing to blow off.
Listen CFP…you repeatedly state that you are out to help others make money in this business right? why not use your marketing skills put together a flier for spring that would kick ass everywhere. Put a phony number on it, a phony company, and lets see what you can do. I’m serious, and i think im not alone in wanting to see something. All we hear is talk talk talk, and sometimes some seriously critical talk about not just my stuff but everyones. Lets see what you can produce.
Kevin is successful, while using very different strategies than any window cleaner i have ever seen or worked with or for. And it works. He also is not afraid to back what he posts with examples. This is real help for those struggling.
My struggles are in winter, not spring summer and early fall… its winter i need help with the most.
Why not keep an open mind about things.
Wow! Crazy, thank you for sharing. When I log onto these forums, I log on looking for insight, opinions and ideas. I believe your Spring flyer looks great. It could have huge results in my market or lousy results. I have a flyer right now that has got me about a 3% return rate. My next batch of flyers I will think about the ideas and opinions shared on this forum and decide if I want to try some or not. If I try it, I track my results and see if it worked. If not, I either try something else or go back to what I had. I don’t care if you are not telling the truth about your numbers or not (I believe you ARE telling the truth), but this is my business and I have to decide how I am going to promote the business.
I sense things are getting personal here and it’s not good to see. We are window cleaning professionals just trying to build our business. It’s hard to share ideas and experience when we feel we are going to get bombarded by criticism. Everyone needs to feel that they can share with just the intent of sharing. “This worked for me, it may be something you might want to think about. If not, oh well” type of attitude.
Again, thanks for sharing Crazy and I hope you continue to share your great marketing input. And, hopefully we can continue to view it as input. Only input.
Thanks Jeremy, I totally agree, this is a forum where we can learn from others, and I love learning from others, that is why im looking to make some minor changes to a already successful flier (for my area).
I like when we all can show stuff, ask questions or make comments without hearing thats its no good. Why not offer simple suggestions on how to make it better.
Suggestions and examples work best to motivate others to produce more creative and successful things. Nothing is ever carved in stone in this industry.
Many on this very forum have proved this.
You’re right – sharing is what it is all about (yes, there are always exceptions…) But, differences of opinion and probing questions contain value as well.
However, why ask for feedback if you don’t want the truth?
You’re absolutely right llackzo. Feedback, debate and [U]CONSTRUCTIVE[/U] criticism should be encouraged. But, I can tell by the tone of the responses that it was going the other way. It seems like it is going from supporting to defending. That’s all. I’m looking forward to much, much more of the helpful advise.
It is unheard of anywhere for any company to achieve a 20% response to a cold target (people who do not know of you). I do not believe it and I could care less if any of you do or not. TRY THE FLIER!
[B]Here is another thing- [/B]
Hire Crazy’s wife to make your flier. I am sure she would do it for a very fair price. I am a graphic idiot and now rarely design and of the graphic elements. Go get 1000 of them made up for $141 and try them out. A $141 in advertising is NOTHING.
[B]How I feel about Crazy-[/B]
I like Crazy actually. I said a long time ago that this flier popped. It sadly had no real reason to call, so I did not like that part. Crazy likely does not give a turd what I think about him, but for the record I do not dislike him.
A lot of you are really in the beginning of increasing your marketing knowledge. If you have interest in it and get into testing what works and what does not, you WILL see things differently. No person on here will likely side with me on this flier issue because they want to believe it. They want it that easy… it is not, sorry. DO NOT take my word for it. Spend $141 (+ design fee) and go get the possible $29,000 you believe Crazy got… (in a bad market according to him) What are you waiting for?
You guys need to stop your chatter and demanding proof from me. I have put my money where my mouth is MANY of times. I have not laid claim to such things. I think proof should come from those with fantastic stories… I have none. I did have the grand story of me mailing 1100 postcards last year and getting 2 jobs. All marketers have losers. Sergio Zyman, Chief Marketing Officer of Coke in the 80s (who is brilliant) had a wonderful idea of changing the Coke formula to stimulate sales… 77 days later he realized his massive blunder and introduced Classic Coke. He then followed it with “Coke is it” and gave Pepsi a real beat down. Trial and error or failing is very beneficial to a marketer. They ALL fail sometimes.
Prove Crazy right and profit 10s of thousands doing it… otherwise zip it (however, I know the same 2 or 3 people are involved with proving me wrong in everything. You likely do not care about the story as much as my comments on it. I am ok with that because I do not think much of you either.)
llaczko>> your right, is was about 150 with 50 referrals. so it was not directly 20%.
As far as CFP is concerned: i do not dislike you Paul, your smart, I have taken alot of your advise to heart as well. I just honestly have found that in the forums over time you have criticized others to the point where i think some are afraid to show there ideas. While criticism is good, it must be constructive and not destructive. I admire that you speak your mind and do not hold back.
As well, why is it impossible to believe some of response rates? because it never has happened in your market? some have mentioned upwards of 10% response in heavily saturated markets. Residential in my area was an open field of opportunity, and sadly i didn’t realize it until I saw the response rate, even though it was over a period of 6 months or so. If i had said that i got 150 calls the day after i distributed 1000 fliers, then call me a BS’er. It took over 6 months to reach that number, and not all fliers where distributed at once either. I was still using that same flier up into July.
I do not claim that my flier is the best, in fact im still looking to improve on it, i want immediate response, i want better response. Thats why i continually ask for suggestions from other that are very successful, 10 times more than me.
I do not like to argue, i do not like to fight, and i hope none of this back and forth has caused anyone to leave this great forum.
Actually Crazy this whole thing is not about critiquing your flier. It is the response that is troubling me. It is not in MY market or in MY industry, it is unheard of in ANY.
Read some marketing books and you will not be surprised on my reaction. It is almost a miracle… really.
You guys keep saying “people are afraid of what you will say”… really? Do I bash peoples marketing ads on here? where? I question other factors. I will say if I think it is not good, but I will not sit and bash it.
that is why so many email me their ads to look at… maybe they fear other things about posting their private business advertising campaigns online. I wouldn’t and don’t.
nope, not on this forum. But many have seen it on this forum (at least basic stuff)
I used to give my ideas away all the time, until a successful marketer said to me… ARE YOU CRAZY!
Do you think I should study, spend money marketing, failing, succeeding, trial and error to come on here and give it away? Does a financial adviser do that? Do advertising agencies do that? Do what you need to do, but do not act like I am something I am not because I do not give away a bunch of my personal strategies.
by the way, what the heck does my stuff have to do with this whole thing?
We are window cleaning professionals just trying to build our business. It’s hard to share ideas and experience when we feel we are going to get bombarded by criticism. Everyone needs to feel that they can share with just the intent of sharing. “This worked for me, it may be something you might want to think about. If not, oh well” type of attitude.
