Thanks, I’m still new to all this **** lol
I’ll probably end up making a list of questions for my accountant when it’s tax time.
This’ll be one of em
I briefly spoke with my CPA and we have an in person meeting to go into more detail but for some quick messages she said being an LLC would do nothing for me. She said as an S Corp I’d become an employee and get payroll taxes deducted but the tax return is more expensive. She also wants me to be aware if I switch to an s Corp I can’t switch back for 5 years. I also read online that you have a lot more accountability when you become an s Corp as far as checking in with Uncle Sam
Man I don’t know how to say this but here it comes , looks like it’s time to look for a new cpa.
I would look for someone who specializes in small businesses.
She sounds like she’s trying to discourage you from converting into an s Corp .
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No it was a 2 message Facebook convo about what our sit down convo is about. She’s got me out of a ton of crap I was in and rocks. She just wants to be honest so I don’t switch then think u just switch back and are stuck for 5 years
He really purchased some Bitcoin the first day it came out and sold it at $66K, he just cleans windows for fun.
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Accountability isn’t always a bad thing. Last I checked, small S-corps get audited less than sole props. https://www.fundera.com/blog/irs-audit
Do you plan on grossing less than 75k anytime in the next 5 years? That’s the only way you wouldn’t at least break even on the savings vs. expense of incorporating.
The returns and accounting do cost more. All told, we might spend an extra $1500-$2000/yr between payroll, QuickBooks online, and the corporate tax returns. But we save over $4k per year minimum in self employment taxes. I’d much rather that money be going towards a local business like our CPA, than to uncle sam. You’re making more than us, so you should save even more.
We don’t ever have to worry about coming up with tax money at the end of the year. We actually get a refund, now. We pay an estimated payment online whenever we take a distribution, and we always tend to overshoot that amount. And the employment taxes are taken out automatically by our payroll service.
One more caveat that your CPA my raise in your meeting with her: your SS contributions will be less. So you should use some of those tax savings and put them in a high yield retirement account. But investing that money on your own can be another tax advantage, and is likely to yield a higher return than what you’d get out of contributing it towards Social Security.
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I haven’t read all of the previous comments in this thread, but I thought chiming in might be a good idea.
Ron, I’m sure you’re likely fully aware of this but it’s worth staying nonetheless. The WCR forum is mostly (but not all in my estimation) business owners who have either
- Owner-operators
- Scaled and then Un-scaled
- New guys to the industry or business in general with technical questions about products or cleaning glass.
All of this is to say, you’ll likely find a lot of consolation in your desire to not have “headaches” reading comments from others here. However, theres some REAL smart cookies on this forum who want to scale or have scaled and are continuing to.
What I’m saying is you’ll find confirmation bias on this forum for the most part. It seems valuable to get the opinions of others who are slightly “ahead” of you or 2x as large and wanting to grow more. We humans like being around those that think like us, but if we can break out of our normal pattern of thinking to someone who’s in a different mindset it’ll opening up new potentials and opportunities we were previously blind to.
I think venting is necessary, Lord knows I’ve had similar frustrations at times.
I’d recommend reading 12 rules for life. Also completing the Future Authoring section of Jordan Petersons Self-Authoring program. It may help you in determining a wise and challenging but rewarding path forward.
PERSONAL EXPERIENCE: A LOT of my frustrations have been mitigated because I have an office manager who handles a majority of the “headaches” with everyday type of hiccups that happen in business. I also have a guy who bounces between the field and office and he manages questions etc from my 2 techs. He and my office manager kind of keep each other accountable so it’s somewhat self functioning and removes me from daily operations for a majority of the time. I’ve created SOP’s (like E-Myth talks about) and it’s been helpful! There’s always more to be done, and right now I’m nailing down specific expectations for my guy that bounces between the field and office so he knows what’s expected of him on a daily basis.
All of that’s to say, I feel your pain. But it seems like it may be a good idea to search put guys who have more employees and heading in the direction of growth to get a second opinion.
Best of luck to you no matter what you choose!
Stay Strong, Ron
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After I won $340 million in the lottery…Lol. Honestly, I just live really simple. I do splurge on travel though. That is what I like to spend my money on.
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For my outfit, I had no choice. Everything you listed in your post I’ve experienced myself also. I had 7 people working for the business at one point. It was 2010/11. Biz was GOOD. Real good.
But not enough to justify hiring so many people. I hated to turn down work, and when I was busy in those years I was able to charge what was needed to make a nice profit.
Those headaches were too much for me. Plus I had my newborn at the time.
Many accounts I lost to the guys who no longer worked with me (underbid me).
Now its just me, and on the larger jobs, I have 2 or 3 guys who will work with me but at really obscene amounts of money to get them there.
Am I happy? Yes I am.
My son is 10 going on 11 in December and the time I lost in the first couple years I kick myself every day about. Not anymore tho. I may be broke most of the time, but man I’m gonna be 50 soon. I got one foot in the grave man, and at the end of the day? Nothing is more important than time to me. I don’t want to spend it anywhere else but right here at home with him and the wife…well, mainly him lol.
Wives don’t take too kindly to being broke. Thankfully I stopped giving a crap long ago and just zone out when the tirade comes…
If you don’t got kids bro, I’d say get that coin while you can. Save everything you can. Because hard times WILL come one day. You’re gonna need a little something for when work gets slow or whatever.
That’s my 2 pennies
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I Am 50! And my feet are well above the fuckin grave!!!
- I have a guy who is 70 (healthy as shit, I concede) who Im looking to, for help this week, no shit…
Women, in general dont take kindly to being broke. lol
True.
If your a small company, and want it managed well with say, 4 or 5 employees an S Corp is a good idea.
You can make them part of your S Corp. Do some profit sharing.
It’s a nice incentive to keep good people. They have a personal stake, and investment in your company as a whole. If you value quality work vs half ass quanity work. I see all types of window cleaners here in Ohio.
I appreciate your concerns. Jeff Hart here, with Doulos Services., LLC in Utah. I’m a solo owner/operator needing to scale up my business. I’m tired of being the “CEO” (Chief EVERYTHING Officer).
You are tired of the stresses that plague larger organizations. You’re right about taking care of your equipment - typically, an employee won’t treat equipment or customer as well as the owner does - they have no “skin” in the game.
One thing you might think about is incrementally scaling down your crews while simultaneously scaling UP your automated processes. One resource that has given me some good information on automating processes is Mike at Grow My Cleaning Company. (His email noted below)
My E-350 van died and I am driving a borrowed 1998 Jeep Cherokee. I am trying to automate the field operations by designing a self-contained water-fed “Veep” (a Jeep pretending to be a Van). I have located a used practically new 100 gallon tank that fits handily into the back of the Jeep for $150.00 and found a practically new 12v 140C/FR battery for $245. Next step is to get a reliable 12v water pump and perhaps a controller. Then, design and mount/the system securely in the back of the Jeep. The idea is to eliminate the need for manual hose set-ups from city water to the dual-bed D.I. tanks for faster job start/end of job protocol - and get on to the next job quicker.
Beyond the equipment setup, Mike addresses the hiring, training and retention of QUALITY employees that don’t cause head aches, how to automate the marketing/sales/scheduling processes, how to automate the invoicing process - among other things.
He also gives a free phone consultation introduction to his services. His price point was out of my reach currently, however, I believe he can help you reduce the percentage of headaches you are currently experiencing, which might give you the balance you want to see in your business operations and administration. Check him out… [email protected].
Please do let me know what you think. I’m open for suggestions from you as well!
Jeff Hart
Doulos Services, LLC
[email protected]
Preaching it!!! I’m exactly where your at. I’ve been building up and this spring I had 5 rockstar employees, when times are good they’re great. But that lasted only a few months and no I’m plagued with everything you mentioned. I’ve had employees for years but never had issues as bad as now. And I’m trying to figure out what to do to solve these issues and I’m currently between trying to hire a manager to deal with the bs, I can pay a guy $60-75k and not have the stress. It I can fire everyone but one guy and he can work with me 3 days a week and I can book way out. But I’d love to hear what your thoughts are? I’m going to finish reading everyone’s comments tomorrow. I feel like there might be some good info tucked in here somewhere
WTF is @JfromtheD ‘s house doing being paid off at 50. JK man that’s awesome. Very envious !! I have good equity though just not paid off. F*uck man … just the thought of it. 1400.00 off the books a month would be sweet. Oh well that’s why I’m still working 6-7 days a week during busy season. Don’t do more than 8!hours a day though.
Why didn’t I get into this business sooner . It was around me my hole life. Should of known my calling.
Had good high school friends , and a bunch of other guys we grew up with that were either in the business or starred there own. My closest friend has a very big business . I’ve made good friends with local guys in the business also. I’ve been Cleaningsince 1998 full time dabbled in it around 1989 for a summer or two. started my own business in 2009. Solo with a helper. Never aspired to scale it. I know all about the headaches , and stress running a big operation , but yes being off the truck must be nice. I don’t mind doing the work though, and I’m an animal form April to August then no more weekends.
I envy the guys who have successful 4-8 guy operation. You guys should be proud of yourselves for taking it to that level. It ain’t easy.
Excellent @Bruce you nailed it. This is pritty much where I’m at.
“Headache or backache” pick your poison
window cleaning is a unique service that one can choose to have employees or not, so there’s always the pull of solo and minimal problems, most other businesses there’s no choice you need many people to function and one just deals with it, but knowing you have a choice . . .
one thing about solo is you can just keep upping the rates and experiementing to really raise profits🙌
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Chris, I’d love to pick your brain a bit about how you have structured your operations manager position. Did you hire specifically for that position or train someone for it? How do you pay them? Etc. I’m at the point where I’ve had 6 employees I’m down to 4 right now but I need to change something because I can’t keep on at this level of stress of doing everything while holding everyone’s hand.
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I hired a guy that was working for us as a lead tech for two years prior. He has some very strong points, including a deep knowledge of small engines (our washers break constantly).
1000% one of the best decisions I have made. We pay him a healthy salary year round. His position is also to be the “spare guy #2” when people call out. With this, he goes out with “spare guy #1” two days a week at about $1500 a day to cover both his and spare 2’s payroll with a little profit in there too.
In the winter, we cut it down to my wife (GM), ops manager and another killer field manager that has been with us for 4 years. The 2 managers are expected to be available for at least 2 days a week throughout the winter for cleaning, aside from Christmas to February 1, when we are in hard shutdown mode. They usually come in anyways to work on projects.
For example, last winter I had my ops manager build out a sandblasting station in the shop. We (he) took apart all 8 power washers we have, sandblasted and painted every corroded part, and put them back together. Also, we did a lot of rust mitigation in the vans as well. It works out quite well, and although it costs money to keep spare people around, its the reason why I rarely need to be around anymore.
Its to the point now that I am starting another company and replicating these systems.
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Fairness… it’s not a very big house. Lol
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With me moving to another state, I am considering working 3 days a week here and packing the schedule with a FT and PT guy and pay them well for their time, rather than keeping 4 guys on and trying to make it work. We have long slow seasons here, mid Jul-end Aug and End Dec- end Jan/mid Feb. (at least I do, and some folks do not consider those long based on their areas).
