Dumb as a box of rocks

The Office Employees
1

I hired a new guy 3 weeks ago, a good kid (22 years old) who has a truck and was trained by another company. Now, I dont know about any of the rest of you guys, but I cant stand it when the new guy who is trained comes to the job with a beach towel or diapers to wipe any drips…I just dont like it. He also claims that after he is done with the job, he go’s thru and fixes any mistakes durring his QC check.

So, on day one, I bought him a box of surgical towels, and told him to finish each pane of glass before he moves on. (In my opinion its a waste of time to go back and re-do them). He cant seem to stop doing this. What takes me 30 minutes takes him an hour and 10 minutes.

I want to let him take off on the commercial stuff with the wfp and DI but his truck broke down (transmission) and he dont know when he will get it back, he now uses a mustang.

My questions are these:
1- How long should I wait to cut him loose because of no truck (part of why I hired him)?

2- How many times do I let him slide for not doing what I say?

3- Do any of you use a write up system, and if so how many do they get before they are gone, and is there a degree of offense???

Why is it that the guys I hire seem to be stupid?? In other posts we spoke about written tests, employee handbooks, making them sign off that they understand everything…and also the fact that common sense just dont seem to exist. I have done the tests, even have saftey meetings once a month. Nothing seems to work and I have been thru 6 guys and counting.

I try to put myself in his shoes, but when I was an employee, I did stuff the other guys would not do! I was ALWAYS early. If I got lost, Igot directions at a gas station and STILL made it on time without the boss ever thinking I was an idiot! I never had so much as ONE complaint because I WANTED THAT NEXT RAISE!!! I was forced to buy a 300.00 gorilla ladder and buy liability insurance that I had to beg and borrow for, but I NEVER told anything to my boss…I just made it happen…WHY cant my guy do this?? I dont make him buy anything but his company shirts-I got workmans comp now so he dont have to worry about insurance. He gets 15 per hour, but he is EXCRUTIATINGLY slow at times, and I end up paying close to 40 to 45% of the job because of it. If one of you guys has the time to set me straight please help, your input is greatly appreciated.

2

Unfortunately there is a real lack of common sense anymore. I’ve worked for companies that employed a “3 write up and out” policy. Each infraction that involved not following the rules would merit a write up that you had to sign. After the 3rd you were dismissed. If an employee decides to do things their way after receiving notice you won’t accept that, it time to get rid of them.

3

  1. I would see if he has plans to fix it. Something like “it’s in the shop now or once payday rolls around it will be fixed.” I normally give a week to two weeks depending on the sircumstances. If you hired him to use his truck then so sorry, no truck no work. move on and find someone who can do it. It hurts but that is the name of the game.

  2. If I tell them once and I have to tell them again for the same thing big problems. Not just now but down the road. I have my ways of doing things and that is how I want my employees to do them. If they can’t handle that then bye bye! I will find someone else who can.

  3. We do write ups. Depending on the offense depends on how fast they go. Normally 3 strikes is a general rule(being late for work, that sort of thing). Now if I catch them doing something unsafe, scraping a dry window, improper use of equipment, stealing, attitude with customers ect. can be a one strike and your gone type thing.

Use your judgement. If this guys is not what you want why waste your time, money and possibly your repeat customers. Can him and get someone who can do what you need them to do. The new hire market seems to be great right now. I have been in your shoes many times. Now days I 98% feel that it is easier to train someone your way than it is to fix bad habits. Every once in a while I get someone who is trained that will surpries me but not offten. Hope this helps you.

4

Thank you fellas. I guess I’m getting soft in my old age. I will talk to him today about the truck. I am going to make write up forms tonight and start using them. Thanks again.

5

I had a guy that would clean the main part of the window and leave the edges and drips only to come back to them later to touch them up. I told him the same thing you said about taking you 30 min and him 70 minutes. I told him to stop it immediately after I found three or four windows on one job that were “missed” on the touch up.

My questions are these:
1- How long should I wait to cut him loose because of no truck (part of why I hired him)?

I suppose that you hired him to be a stand alone employee with no other teammates. If not, can he work with you or another crew? If that’s not a possibility, then I’d let him go immediately because of a failure to meet job qualifications.

2- How many times do I let him slide for not doing what I say?

Once. Then correct the behavior. If he refuses to submit to your directions, FIRE HIM ON THE SPOT, and walk him out then.

3- Do any of you use a write up system, and if so how many do they get before they are gone, and is there a degree of offense???

We do use a write up system. It has varying degrees of offense. The more severe the offense, the fewer chances they have. MY general rule of thumb is three small infractions, two medium, and one large or extreme rule infringement gets them the proverbial boot. I have all of this documented in my Employee Handbook and they know it before they begin working for me.

…and also the fact that common sense just dont seem to exist.

Nowadays its called uncommon sense. People don’t have common sense any longer..

Nothing seems to work and I have been thru 6 guys and counting.

Been there done that. I found that it was better to hire guys that are in their late 20’s or 30’s and not the college age kid. They have no motivation. The older guys might have a family or kids to support and usually they know the value of having a decent job, especially in the tough job market we are experiencing.

I try to put myself in his shoes,

Don’t bother. Sounds like this guy couldn’t even find your shoes to put on. You always hear, “He has big shoes to fill”. You being the owner, no one can fill your shoes like you. So why put yourself in his? I understand the whole being the nice boss, but those days for me are long gone. Now I am polite, cordial, and respectful, but I sure as hell don’t let any of my employees walk on me any more. I learned my lesson the hard way last year.

6

Any update on this Tory?

7

Yeah, I got an update. I hired another guy, and kept the screw up on but drastically cut his hours. I gave him a week to get a truck, and the day I told him that, he freaken bends the #2 piece on one of my tucker poles!!! He has had 5 weeks training on that pole! When I came to the job, I asked him what happened and he said “what? what do you mean?”

Wow. That freaken bent ass pole numb skull! What did you do??? “I dont know”

So, I found this guy who worked for Starbrite window cleaning in mn. Not the Starbrite here on the site, but he comes with a great reference, was in the military (afganistan and iraq) and seems like he has a brain. I am giving him 30% of everything.

Meanwhile, of course, the other guy replied about why he didnt get a truck like he said he would by today “oh, my bad DOG…I can get one by next week”

So, he is gonna only be on the apartments I do and a couple store fronts, and he will be on % now instead of hourly. But I tell ya, they all start out good. On this new guy, I decided to take a chance and had him sign out a pole, hose, tanks etc…he has his own ladders and squeegees, but I gotta trust someone and based on his references, I think he may be the one.

I have never payed on a % basis and am still trying to figure out how to do that on big jobs that require 2 or 3 guys. Any advice??

8

I.m.o. It is better to hire someone with no experience. Then you can train that person the way you like to. Hiring experienced some times brings bad habits along. Hired a guy last year with experience. His experience was to carry ladders horizontal instead of vertical, which I insist. The only time I want to see a ladder carried horizontal is when avoiding obstacles. Carry it upright! He lasted 2 days.

9

Yeah, I tried that too. I just dont have the time to be doing that anymore. The guy I hired today seems to be a keeper. You ARE right tho, they do bring along bad habbits. The last 2 guys did that.

10

I always pay a percentage. Normally 30%. One job, one guy = 30%. One job, two guys = 15% each. and if there is a third they get 10% each. We have done it this way for over 20 years. the only problem is when you pair up a slacker with a hard worker. sometimes you have no choice but If you can avoid it, do.

11

That is what I thought as well. It would be the same time pretty much for the same money really. Thanks.

12

Yep, so true. It has worked great for me. When you put two great washers together for some reason they try and go faster than the other. Friendly competition I guess. But then they do a whole lotta work…cha-ching! good luck with the new guy. Hope it all works out for you.

13

I think that we all (business owners) fall prey to potential new hires that talk the talk. Ive hired a few over the years and it was bad news for me. Its easy to get excited when someone calls you looking for a job thats says they have experience. I have learned to be pretty cautious when considering them as an employee. Some start out cool then they think they can run the show.

I have trained fresh off the street new hires and had them producing profit within 3 weeks. Train them yourself first before sticking them with another employee is what I found out works the best. I also have a training wall in my shop that I have taught new hires the technique.

90% of the new hire window cleaners with previous experience Ive had were know it alls and could give a crap on how you do things in your business. It baffles me as to how these guys seem to end up end up with that same “I could give a sh!t about you and your business” attitude.

When I hire now, I have the attitude of “do you deserve to work for me and my company?” attitude. Keep that mentality and you should end up with decent employees. As they say" hire hard , manage easy".

Steve

14

I hear the hell outta that! I am buying a book about managing tomorrow. I hope I can learn a few things. I just yesterday hired another guy that has experience, and of course he is doing great. We shall see.

15

I have seen this post one too many times now. I see that you are putting expectations on this guy way too much. HE IS NOT YOU!!! Yes it is realty silly to leave a window unfinished but it is a bad habit he has to break. Give the dude some time and work with him. Patience is a must and it seems to me you don’t have any. Have you sit back and thought maybe it’s not them. Come on all 6 guys are stupid. Man I think you are on a power trip. To me it seem you made this post so you can show everyone that your the boss and everyone else is morons. I like things done my way to but I know that everyone isn’t me so I have to teach them my way. And everyone doesn’t care about my business like I care about my business. Take this how ever you want but my intention is good here. Look at you bro!!!

16

Maybe you are right. I HAVE worked worked with him, and I have given him 2 months…yet every day there is something that go’s wrong. If you look at the date of this post you will see that it is not recent, and in fact he will be let go on Monday.

I understand about not liking to see a post that you feel the writer is the one that needs to get right, I feel that way too sometimes. But I have done all the training I am willing to give. For instance, I asked him never to call me from a customers’ phone. He does exactly that on Tuesday, and I tell him again to PLEASE do not do that. Guess what happens on Wednesday?

You may be right, it probably is me…

When a worker forgets to bring my ladder to a 2 story job, my fault. When he forgets his water bucket or squeegees, yeah I can see how that is my fault.

Like I said, I am getting a book on management, but really…problems like this I thought were supposed to be put out for others to advize, seeing that most of you guys have been where I am and may be able to help out.

You say it seems like I dont have any patience. Could you please tell me another way to handle things? I have given it quite some time in my opinion, is 2 months not enough time? How long should I give him if when I am standing in the same room with him he will not listen to how I want things done?

Signed
Power Tripper

17

You said you went through 6 people. I’m not just talking about him. I’m talking about the whole picture. But I don’t know the whole story. It sounds to me the guy might need to go if he doesn’t follow directions. It was the way the post was written that I didn’t like. I might have took it all wrong but it sounded like everything you do and done is the only way and they just were under you. Calling people dumb and stupid isn’t what a leader/Boss does in my opinion. No hard feelings!

18

You know what? You’re right. Even if he aint on this forum and may never read it, I still should act like he will. Point taken.

19

Simplyglass and Tory, I have to say that your disagreement on this subject was one of the best handled I’ve seen. Both of you had strong feelings about the issue, disagreed w/ the others line of thought at first and then found a way to incorporate the others point of view to a certain extent. Very well done guys! It’s an example I’m going to learn from.

20

Thanks man. I guess when yer wrong, yer wrong…