My guys will many times meet me at my house (my office) and either get their stuff for the day and go off alone or jump into my truck and tag along with me.
I have been struggling to figure out whether I should pay them when they get to their first job destination (which is actually their 2nd destination since they already reached my house) or when they reach my house to meet me. I have jobs far away many times (hour or more).
When I did land surveying years ago, we would meet at the office, jump in the company trucks, and go off to whichever highway we would be surveying. They started our time and ended our time at the office. Otherwise we would be driving for free for maybe hours.
What would/do you all do? Are there any legalities?
when i worked for another company i got paid one way travel time… usually from the time we got to the first job until we got back to the shop. i used to do the same with my guys but now pay them percentage…
I would stick with your house as start time…If you did it when they got to thier job site(after they went to your house first)…they may start to get disgruntled. What you could do is have them meet you at the job sites…have them go to the job sites from thier home. Then start them at that time they get to the job site
I tell the guys meet at the office, say at 7:30. Thats when thier time starts. I did have a guy who had to be late every Monday due to having his kid over the weekend, and I was fine with that. He’d come in at 10:00 and would have to meet us at the first job, on his time, not mine. Then he wanted to complain that he wasn’t gettin fuel money outa me, but his personal life is not my bill.
they wouldnt get disgruntled if you told them upfront- one way travel time.
have you ever been out to l.a. or orange county area? i spent quite a bit of time in the huntington beach area 8-9 years ago and the traffic was ridiculous… im guessing it still is. nevermind if the job is far away to begin with.
if they want their time to start when they get to your house tell them to do something productive like wash the trucks or set the truck up and check on supplies, rags etc…
when i started my first window cleaning job it was an hour commute each way on a boat to an island (martha’s vineyard) guess what i got… one way travel time. i was never upset about it bc i was told the policy… i also enjoyed playing cards on the boat everyday…
if the guys get disgruntled there is another thread on here called write ups and termination… write em up or get rid of them. if they dont understand they are costing you money sitting in the truck (i assume hourly+enpenses) you dont need them… tell them good luck finding a job. just do yourself a favor and have them sign a nondisclosure and non compete before you do
not sure how it is over there, but am petty sure here if you require them to come to the office first (get equipment and or car), then that is when they get paid from.
if there is extra travel time, might have to add a little more onto the price, if you have to pay your employees the time to travel, you have to be getting paid something to pay them in return
When I was paying hourly, drive time was eating my profits up fast. I spoke with my accountant and she informed me that I could actually pay them a lower wage during those drive time hours. There is a name for it and it is totally legit through the eyes of the labor board.
There are labor laws that come down hard on employers that are not paying employees while they are officially on the clock or conducting business for you (ie:driving to a job).
I spoke with the labor relations board a few years back when I switched over to commission for my crews and they informed me that I still have to document hours that my guys work. If they exceed over 40 hours, I am supposed to take what they have made during their 40 hours and divide it by 40 which will give me their actual hourly rate. I then multiply that rate by time and a half. This figure is the actual overtime pay.
My brother who used to work for a sprinkler installation company, only received pay for time on the job. No pay for the drive to job and back to the shop. This is totally wrong,unethical and illegal.
Do things the legit way and you wont have to worry about disgruntled employees coming back on you for pay they should have received. Retro pay they should have received during their employment with your company could end up costing you thousands of dollars and possible fines.
Yeah, I have always been paying the guys from the office to the job. I always tell them that their first and last destinations are their start and end time. But I love the idea of lowing their pay during drivetime (they sleep during the drive for goodness sake). I also like making the homeowner pay for that time.
I wouldn’t lower the pay during drive time. If I were an employee and my boss did that, I would feel nickel-and-dimed and wouldn’t feel valued.
I’ll have my first employee this coming spring. I’ll be paying them from the time they come to the office until the completion of the last job. That seems reasonable to me.
I live in a large metropolitan area and it’s common for drive time to be 2hrs a day. I’m not happy about it but it’s part of the cost of doing business.
Instead of taking away from your employees (who are out there making you money), maybe you should re-evaluate your pricing or look to save costs in other ways.
I know here in Iowa you pay to the job but not to home unless you require them to return a work vehicle to the shop. If they can leave from the job to home then you don’t have to pay.
I agree with the both of you on not dividing drive time and actually on the job hourly pay. I was just stating that it is legal to do it that way. I think that if you pulled all of your crews into a meeting and sprung the new lower pay scale on them it wouldnt go over well with them at all. Most would probably quit right there on the spot.
This whole discussion was a huge part of why I moved away from hourly pay into commission only. Start times -lunch times-Drive times- slacking on the jobs. It cuts into your wallet for sure.
I’ve always been up front with my employees that the clock begins when we get to the first job and ends when we get to where I drop them off(now my house for my main employee). Almost every businessperson I’ve talked to about this does the same thing. On days when we’re late to the first job due to my poor planning or something unexpected I start the clock at the scheduled time, not the actual time getting to the first job. On Wednesdays when the initial ride can be 45 to 75 minutes I usually throw in a fraction of an hour. I guess I’d better check my state’s laws though, after the comments I’ve read on this.
I’m pretty sure you were an employee somewhere during your life, go back in time and present yourself with the ideas you have in mind for your guys, then you’ll how would you react if one of those guys was you back in the day.
Absolutely. I do that for sure in every single situation I come across in my business that involves my employees. Whats good for me has to be equally good for them if I plan on keeping them with me. Its just the smart thing to do (Corporate America Should take a lesson on that:D).
I start paying when they get to the office (my house) its whatever time i schedule them,then they are done at the completion of the last job. I dont pay for the trip home. I had 1 guy who always was early and assumed that since he was there hed be paid for the time, he was wrong, time starts the hour theyre scheduled.
Since I’m an employee and not an owner I’ll throw my two cents in. This is one of those issues that can turn a good employee into a unhappy one. If I’m asked to be to the office at 8 then thats when I expect the clock to start. I also expect the clock to finish when I am able to go about my own business, not when the last job is done. The end time is the one that would bother me the most. If you don’t pay for the drive back to the office then it says to me that you don’t think my time is worth anything. Which do you think would be better for your bottom line, a happy employee who dosen’t feel nickel and dimed or an unhappy one who is going to drag ass?
This is so true- not getting paid for the drive home or until you get to the jobsite is being far more than nickel and dimed. Thats a good amount of money that you are getting cheated out of every day,every week, every year. I have employees (not subs) and they use my vehicles to service my accounts. What if they are involved in an accident on their way home or the other way around? Are they technically not on the clock under your care and supervision? What if they get into an accident on their way to or from a job in a company vehicle? Are you responsible for them because they arent technically “on the clock”? The answer is YES!
Create a start time (when they are leaving your shop) and that start time is when they start getting paid. When they arrive back to your home/shop, have them clock out and thats when it ends. Simple,fair and legal.
If you only pay them to the end of the last job and they then have to drive back to the office, isn’t that nickel and diming. That seems reasonable to you? Seems contridicting to me, and perhaps illegal.
I treat my guys more than fair. I feed them, give them bonuses. They have a more than fair hourly. I’m sure there are plenty of comparisons in other industries. The time when you perform more as an employee, many times that is your most profitable hour.
They would understand. MY guys have said I am the fairest boss they’ve ever had (actual words). So I dont feel that it would affect them. Would they like it? No. Is this their business? No.
I treat my guys great. If I were to cut costs in this way none of them would leave.
I am firm, but also approachable. My employees feelings are always considered, but not the only factor. I appreciate that there is a balance.
