http://www.windowcleaner.com-a.googlepages.com/fabricatingdebris
I built that page yesterday… Thanks to Mistersqueegee for the help. Can any one think of additional wording I may want to add? Additional waivers or downloads to put up?
I want to keep it simple and to the point… I just dont want to forget anything.
Thanks!
It was my pleasure Chris. I really like what you have here. It’s the one stop shop for FD. You have the 3 industry associations stance, Dan Fields site, a simple waiver link, and of course the videos! No one else has this much info in one place. Well done!
That’s great info, so is the form that is offered a legal document that would hold up in court once signed?
I cleaned a ladies windows the other day and saw that she had fabrication debris on her windows and mentioned that to her and she said not to scrape the windows which was great. I’m glad I learned about that on the forum, otherwise I would have scraped and hoped for the best, instead I saved myself and had an understanding customer when I explained it to her.
I cant say for 100% sure it would hold up in court. But I surely wouldn’t work on ANY job with out having one signed.
I had my waiver checked by an attorney. Of course Iowa law is different from other states so I’d say check w/ an attorney. Of course you could ask Dan Fields as he works in Cali and his waiver works. Check the link to his site I think he has sample waivers on there.
Get this! I spoke w/ my nationwide agent yesterday and she had looked into whether or not I would be covered under my liability policy for scratching glass caused from FD. She spoke w/ some1 at the home office or such and they were not only to familiar w/ FD, but they will not cover me in regards to FD scratches. AND! no rider is available. Just amazing. Stuck cleaning garbage glass and it seems the only people taking a stand against it are the window cleaners, considering there are so many other people affected by this epidemic.
It makes perfect sense when you realize that FD is a defect and insurance companies never cover a “preexisting condition”. On the upside this helps to establish this as a defect and not as something “inherent” in the glass as GANA says.
Why do you need to be covered by liabilty insurance if you utilize customer education and a waiver?
why do you need auto insurance if you take drivers ed and study the dmv handout book???
Because no waiver is 100% fullproof. Anything and everything can be challenged in court. My insurer said the same thing.
Irrelevant – liability insurance will not cover scratches due to fabricating debris.
That’s precisely my point. Without insurance coverage in that area, the only security blanket a window cleaner has is the waiver and it is not bullet proof. I realize that educating builders/homeowners and getting a waiver signed is vital. I just wish it weren’t this way as I’m sure most window cleaners wish also. I just turned down a rather large CCU because the guy would not sign the waiver. He seemed reasonable and receptive to the facts but said he could not take that risk of signing and then being liable if the glass was scratched. This whole issue just sucks period.
On Dan’s site there are sample waivers for builders to glass suppliers. Why not make one up for your company and start giving them to the builders that you deal w/ so they can pass the liability up the chain. I’m sure they would appreciate not being stuck w/ bad glass.
Exactly. I will fill u all in next week about the waiver after my visit w/ an attorney who is reviewing it.
I’ve seen all of that stuff Tony. He understood all of that but did not feel comfortable accepting one from me and said he didn’t feel comfortable asking the manufacturer to sign one because (as he laughed) he said he knew it would be a ridiculous proposition to ask because he knows it won’t fly.
Good information for sure but I’m thinking a landmark court case won via waiver would be better than an educated guess.
so no1 knows of one of those landmark cases? Precisely why many of us are not so sure of those waivers
Dan has won hundreds of cases. They settle out of court usually. The waiver works!
Sounds like someone that’s looking for a scapegoat. Nothing ridiculous about making sure your customer has a quality product. After all if there is a problem he is the guy they will be looking at for a solution.
Why would you say he is looking for a scapegoat? I couldn’t disagree more. Where I get lost in your takes on this matter sometimes Tony is where you (and others) keep the focus on the manufacturers. That’s all and well but if the norm continues to be labels that say the warranty is void if you use a scraper I’d say your “I’ll die with my scraper in my hand theory” will only render you helpless. Liability is his concern in every aspect of each job. Whether you want to recognize it or not, scratch waivers are not an accepted/norm for builders and I doubt they ever will be. I know all of the reasons and facts and so does this builder. Furthermore, I fully understand that the problem is in the manufacturing. Nonetheless, the liability gets diverted when manufacturers like Marvin put labels on their glass that sez using razor blades to remove stickers will void the warranty. That changes the playing ground. To me it essentially sez that they acknowledge there is potential for damage and don’t want to change the process on their end so those responsible for the removal of the labels must. Then comes the fact that the builders don’t want the increased cost of using alternative methods.
This whole thing stinks. Standing back and hoping the glass manufacturers will fold to our little industries demands isn’t realistic in my opinion. But regardless, something will have to give eventually. I think change might come in the form of an alternative method becoming an accepted form of removing stickers.
