You enjoy being in league w/ Satan?!
I think fish franchises can be successful if run properly and have their priorities in order. The best run companies I have come across especially in this industry have one common mantra - fish does not have this mantra. It’s all about their bottom line, under mining competition in some way/any way possible and furthering their own agenda. From reading posts here for the last 2-3 years I think we all have a common idea of “fish” - they suck.
I must have been lucky enough to know and work with someone who is simply not in this bottom feeder mentality. Franchises are a viable (and historically successful) way to get into a business. The royalty fees are just like any other franchise so it certainly isn’t stupid nor meant for fools. People start franchises all the time and people pay franchise fees all the time as well. It’s part of the franchise setup just like any other one. Fish doesn’t have some monopoly on fools. Fools are just separated from their money faster right??
Bottom line is you get out of it what you put in. If you undercut everybody then you get crap. If you do it right, as Fish advises, you’ll end up with a business that works. Geez, the shirts aren’t that bad. They’re just red and visible with Fish window cleaning on them. What’s wrong with that?? We had people ask about cleaning all the time because they saw the shirts. And when I gave them an estimate it sure as hell wasn’t a lowball one because I know how much I’m making on the deal. Enough $15 jobs in proximity to other ones ends being good, … not stinky.
And since when do you get customers when you sign up for a franchise?? You still have to go get your own customers no matter what franchise you buy into. This isn’t unique to Fish in any way. The only thing I didn’t like (other than working for someone else) was Fish has sort of a religious bent on the organization. The appeal to God in some of their marketing made me feel a little uneasy.
I’m not on a rampage to defend Fish. Just saying I had a completely different experience and it goes to show that there are smart businessmen in the organization. Some of them actually care and are successful because of this. Perhaps this is not the norm based on what I read but success can happen with franchising. It’s up to the franchisee to make the right moves. It’s certainly not for me, but could be for somebody else.
I agree alot of franchise businesses have good success. However a lot of these businesses are more complicated than window cleaning and do not have forums as WCR for guidance. IMO part of what you’re paying for in a franchise is this guidance.
I’m sure some Flsh Franchise owners are really good people and don’t deserve the nasty low ballin reputation their franchise has brought upon them. But my understanding is this low balling, cheating, stealing practice is normal training for all Flsh franchisees. I’m not just talking based on what I’ve heard, I’ve experienced this first hand thru my hard earned customers.
Michael,
Best way to get a heated dicussion going is to take the other side. 
Here’s my thought if you have to go and look for work and so on its like this in my mind Chevy pickup truck or gmc yes a gmc or Chevy can be better in there own ways your buying a name and as much as I see it fish has a bad name so who would u wanna be know as I say make a name for yourself ither way you have to pound the pavement and look for jobs but this way your making it your own not fishes own like some have said they do window cleaning only were by yourself u can do windows gutter power washing and so on
Fish has a bad name with (potential) customers? What makes you state that?
BTW, my local Fish franchise came and went pretty quickly. They advertised (at the time) 27 years experience – obviously trying (prolly like so many franchises) to capitalize on the entire Fish name history. I secured my largest customer after Fish left and no longer answered their phone. Of course, my customer also told me many stories of the Fish franchisee’s and employees’ unprofessional behavior during the period they provided service.
I’m not sure how one measures the success of Fish as a whole. There’s the corporate entity and the 238 or so franchises (which may or may not be profitable – however one measures that.)
I didn’t realize Fish was such a big threat to everyone. I’ve been working in San Diego for the last 6 years and for the first time last week I saw a Fish employee out in the field. I’ve heard of the company but never heard of them doing any jobs around here.
The bottom line is that they are doing something right, if they weren’t they wouldn’t be around. Their franchise model might not work for everybody. That’s no sweat off my back. It might be different in other markets but there are lots of windows in San Diego County and I welcome a little competition. If they are as bad as I hear on this forum that will make me look that much better I guess. I will say I was in awe of how slow the guy from fish was working. We was at about a slugs pace.
everything I have been aware of is their model is based around commercial only and lowest price
when you run the numbers, the lowest price compounds problems, leads to lowest skilled, lowest wage workers using their own vehicles with a magnent sign type of set up
others that are larger may run differently
however, a lowest price model, DOES NOT mean the owner is making more than a smaller shop at more sustainable pricing
I believe they pick commercial and storefront due to the year round nature that can work nationally
but again, when you run the numbers of a lowest price shop, things get pretty tough behind the scenes keeping staff and actually achieving a net revenue that can pay you commesurately with the time and effort you are putting in.
oh, and then you get to shell out 7-10% of GROSS revenue for “marketing” and franchise fees
ouch.
Some here are working this model, whether its right or not for you will depend on your abilities, skill, ambition and certainly a lot of due diligence. Will buying ANY franchise help you leapfrog ahead? Well leapfrog to what? This is the internet age, questions can be answered with a few google searches. If you are independent I urge you to take a second look, if your nature is prefering to be told/guided heavily, well, perhaps.
Only you can decide for yourself.
Exactly.
So if your business acumen would lead you to run a better run franchise, then you are probably not a good candidate for ANY franchise, since you will be pursuing, or already have a built in natural talent of business acumen that would supercede what they provide.
And when it comes down to it, the franchisors are limited by law in what they can dictate
kind of along the same principles of if you hired someone as a subcontractor 1099 style, there is only so much you can dictate to them before they are reclassified as employees.
which leads to some franchisees deciding lowest price is the only answer. (and usually because back is against the wall to make some $ happen with all the debt and payments on the horizon every month = haven’t done their due diligence as being a marketer, but that becomes EXTREMELY limited within a franchise arrangement, you can change course or “be something else” for a niche. = if you are thinking this way, you should run your own business to begin with)
Being a franchisee is essentially similar to being a store manager. In a way buying the “job” of being a local store manager. (remember, in FIsh franchise, you don’t own those names, customers or anything else you worked to attain, corporate does, that screams “job of store manager” to me more than anything else. Plus they can “fire” you for underachieving and “transfer” the “region” to another “buyer” who wants YOUR job more. ouch, ouch, ouch)
I am not leveling a judgement for or against as much as I am trying to “turn the brights on” the road ahead for those trying to see ahead into the distance.
Damian, I hear the one in Orange County is a high achiever as well
Perhaps these are the Lambrinides brothers of Fish? (the MAJOR exceptions to what is usually observed? Will they RENEW their contract when the holy cow 10 year long contract is up again for renewal? Makes one wonder. Perhaps they are “plants” subsidized by HQ as “prime examples”, lol)
The Fish name isn’t McDonalds. Fish is all independently owned. So a “big mac” here isn’t necessarily a “big mac” over there.
What does Fish stand for? (not the religious fish referenece, the company)
?
At least McDonalds has a uniform what they stand for, globally. Decent food fast (doesn’t mean best, or you like it, just decently acceptable as an average across the widest swath of people)
WHat does Fish stand for?
What is their USP? Their niche?
not what you think, not what you have observed, what is in the general populace’s mentality when you say Fish window cleaning? What does EVERYONE say comes to mind?
Biggest? so what, whoop de doo, what does that mean for me as a local customer dealing with an independently owned franchisor? And even if you have an answer, what does that have to do with “what do they stand for nationally in people’s psyche?”
Talking to anyone reading this post.
To me, if the franchisees keep ending up at lowest price, that’s a MAJOR symptom that they are not using their 7% gross revenue marketing royalties to TRAIN their franchisees in better and ongoing marketing skills and improvement. Left to their own devices, franchisees are feeling all the same pressures as the rest of us and without some MAJOR marketing guidance and VALUE ADDED strategies from HQ are feeling the only answer IS to lower prices.
How about the high achievers? perhaps they are the real businessmen who can make it on their own without HQ’s lackluster marketing training and perhaps they are high achievers and strategizers at “beating the system” (pushing the envelope of HQ’s limits)
which could mean they wont renew their 10 year contract and find a way to move on
Wait, they don’t own ANYTHING they’ve worked for, ouch, perhaps they are great enough strategizers to work around that one too?
Again, if the local resorts to lowest pricing as their differentiator, how much can you possibly afford to pay for “top notch” skilled staff?
Like my article in WCBO #3, if it’s going to take 3 employees to replace your solo income (my work shown in detail) when you charge “sustainable pricing”, how much is it going to take if you charge half as much?
when I ran it thru my company spreadsheet set to the numbers to simulate this scenario, I got 10 employees!!! is what it would take
more that triple the employees, amazing.
that was just dealing with NET REVENUE or MARGIN after operations expenses
who is managing these 10 people?
who is paying for the extra administration staff? and their computers? and office space?
These would all be additional expenses not taken into consideration in the spreadsheet.
Does Fish have a spreadsheet simulator for their franchisees to “see what’s it’s going to take” to NET or have a PERSONAL INCOME of “x” at the prices of “y”???
I bet not
oh, did I mention that was not accounting for 7-10% of GROSS REVENUE paid out for “marketing” and royalty expenses. (marketing, pishaw, have you ever seen a tv ad, newspaper ad or anything else run by HQ that would benefit the local franchisee? I didn’t think so.)
Fish HQ is working for Fish HQ. They get up front fees, royalties, can bump you off if underperforming as stated earlier by someone, get upfront fees again, oh and they OWN ALL ASSETS of the local, which of course is essentially the JOBS. The franchisee is no doubt on the line for any trucks he bought, an office lease, etc etc.
No skin off of Fish HQ nose, then they resell and get more upfront fees.
Their “business” IS NOT window cleaning!
making sense to anyone?
Wow this thing has blowin up to be big 8o
Prior to getting into this business, I had never heard of Fish. I lived in Los Angeles and surrounding area all my life until I moved to Idaho a couple years ago and I had never heard of them. To me when I would consider buying into a franchise, I would want a name that everyone knows is synonymous with that business and good service. I would not want to invest in a franchise that has no more brand recognition than my own business name. One of the main reasons I would pay the huge fee and royalties is to take advantage of a household name. There are many of them in all sorts or businesses. I can’t say anything bad about Fish, but I certainly wouldn’t invest in them if I had never heard of them. I can’t imagine why anyone would.
I did look into franchises when I retired and started looking into a new career. Unfortunately, all of the ones that I had heard of had huge financial requirements. So I started looking at some of the lesser known and more affordable franchises. I still came back to my original conclusion, if I had never heard or them, chances are many other people had never heard of them and therefore, there was no incentive to pay for a no name when I could spend a fraction of that to make my own name known.
I’m not sure I expressed that as well as I should have, but I guess the bottom line is, if I could afford to buy a McDonald’s, then I will build my own business.
You should buy a Fish franchise
I know I heard he drives a Bentley and people kiss his rings when he lands those huge taco shop storefronts
I’m sure a few Fish owners have decent companies, I simply prefer independence end of story
I found it appealing…
You made some good points.
