Hey guys so I’ve of course had the standard issues of scratching tempered glass on doors and cheap glass dividers and such, but this is a major issue I’m having. I am doing construction clean up on a new storefront that has standard glass windows. I put in a new stainless blade, mopped the window down, and razored it like I always do, just one pass over the whole window, mopped scrubbed with a xero pad, and mopped and squeegeed, and saw my razor had left lines. I kinda freaked out, so I was extra careful on the next one, this time squeegeeing the window before mopping again and razoring, same thing.
What is going on, and how do I proceed? If any of you saw my last post, I’m currently doing 190 panes, construction cleanup for $175 dollars so that I can have the quarterly gig, I’m definitely getting kicked in the nuts on this one. How should I proceed? I hardly see how I can now go to them and demand more for the job now that I have scratched their windows, specifically after pointing out that whatever person did construction cleanup on the one section that has been rented scratched the hell out of the glass and gave them a guarantee I would not. I’m between a rock and a hard place, fellas. What would you do?
EDIT: In order to make sure it wasn’t my fault, I changed out the blade again and went down the block to another client who has older windows. Cleaned them used the blade, not a problem. I tried one more teensy spot and noticed that boss is making a loud gravely noise as I scrape, which I noticed at first but assumed that was just due to the hard water stains I was taking off. Not so. How do I proceed?
EDIT 2: I called the glass company, they said the windows they installed are standard glass and no different than any other window. Are windows getting softer?
EDIT 3: after perusing the forums, I have read that razors can not scratch glass, but that fabrication debris is the likely culprit? If this is the case, should I inform the company I’m cleaning for that they have defective windows? Should I call the window company first? This is an incredible waste of time for $175.
I hate it to say it… but, you shouldn’t have underbid your services to land a job. That contractor will forever associate you with a cheap job and now also with a problem.
I feel for you man, CCU is something I turn down almost always now. I have 15 years experience window cleaning and have done hundreds of CCU’s in the past. The money is great, the risk not so much.
I read about that, I don’t think they have any stamps since they are storefront windows. I’ll take a look next time I go by, I’m going to have to talk with the building owner and the window company again.
Hey, other than just complaining, assuming the windows will not be fixed, cause I know in this town they won’t, what can I do to achieve construction cleanup quality without a blade? Also, in what world does a window scratch this badly? I would expect surface level scratches, but I that picture you can see it scraped up threads of glass like butter, and that was new blade, washed glass, light light pressure, every precaution possible.
If that glass is in a store front I doubt it is regular annealed glass. I had scratches that looked just like that 2 years ago. Had no idea I made them. Didn’t see them, didn’t hear that familiar fabricating debris tinkle, nothing. And there weren’t many of them. 5 or 6 on a 8’ x 10’ piece of glass. Talked with the contractor, the local window sales company and the window manufacturer. All turned a deaf ear to fabricating debris, even with written articles and stuff from GANA. Cost me 5,000.
For the past several years most glass manufactures have changed their care instructions when it come to cleaning of glass.
You should assume much of the glass fabricated today will scratch.
Many glass manufactures have now clear instructions that no scrapers are to be used ( well not a 4-6" blade in the fashion window cleaners have been used to for many years) the safe method is to clean the glass with standard methods to identify if the glass has construction debris, then preferably use loosing agents to dislodge the debris with like steel or brass wool or magic erasers or white pads, if debris still persists then use a 1" blade to remove the “spot” using less than a 3 mm stroke and repeat to all other persistent “spots”.
This is why I do not do construction cleans period. Also why all my quotes state that none will be removed in any window clean I do.
I believe if you check through, my older posts pre 2018 there will be many posts about this very subject.
I know this doesn’t really answer your question, but I simply do not do CCU, period.
I have had very good success, even with builders, by explaining that I clean glass but I do not remove construction material such as concrete, stucco, paint, adhesive, etc.
I then tell them that if that stuff is on the glass, hold the contractor accountable and I will clean the glass after they removed the debris.
I know CCU can be profitable, so I am not saying everyone should do what I do, but, I do feel that by taking on these kind of jobs we are letting contractors get away with sloppy work. Essentially, because it’s cheaper to pay a window cleaner to fix the problem than to actually do the work in a mindful proper manner.
Also, think of the cost of passing all the liability onto the poor window cleaner who is new and needs $175. We are not the winners in this situation.
Too everyone else, thank you for this new perspective. Up until now I was under the impression that new blades with soap and water could not hurt standard glass, period. Obviously that’s not true. The good thing is that I am not actually under obligation to do “construction cleanup” per say as I was merely doing that as the guest clean because that’s what I do, but I can do the job and not remove silicone and the like, and I am simply going to have to take responsibility for the 2 windows that I scratched and offer to replace or pay for repair. I don’t think They’ll mind too much if I’m honest considering what the other crew did to 6+ of the other windows on the building. I’m learning a lot right now, that’s for sure
If by standard glass you mean annealed glass as distinct from heat treated and tempered then you would be, for the most part accurate that a new blade will not scratch it. The exception would be if there is a coating on it, in which case you are not actually scratching the glass, you are scratching the coating. The picture you showed is clearly scratched glass and more than likely tempered or heat treated since it is a store front.
It is, in fact, old castle, checked while I cleaned them tonight. I’ve read a bit about the discussions of fabrication debris and such and people saying that that’s not really a thing, but you know, I think I believe it. My reasoning is this. This is not scraping glass. This did not result in surface level scrapes all at the same depth. This is an incredibly deep cutting into the glass. I can see the blade that I’m using. It is more or less perfect, I do not see how it could just dig in a deep groove like that, it doesn’t make sense. It is gravely when it scrapes, something about the glass surface is bad. I’m just thankful some other bafoon is responsible for ruining 20 or so windows completely and I little more than somewhat scratched 2. I’m going to be upfront and honest with them about that and offer to cover the fix for the 2 I scratched. End result, I got the windows reasonably clean, I’d say about 90% with just xero pads and I make $175, $40 of which I paid my little brother who I’m training in and has picked up window cleaning incredibly fast. He got the knack immediately and is already going side to side. We should have made more, but I have a great discussion to have with the building owner, I’m going to stand my ground here.
I’m glad I have some form of recourse here and the potential to educate them about this so that they see it wasn’t may fault. These people are pretty cheap, so I doubt they will have them repaired/replaced, but I could always use this to get into the glass repair business. ;D
So you agreed to do windows for $.89 per window? You gotta know your worth brother. You should be pulling at minimum $50 per hour, and that number should increase as you get better and faster… I’ve taken a few jobs that I way under estimated and got my butt handed to me for minimal money. This is the best way to learn, no YouTube video or fb post can teach you this. You have now learned a valuable lesson the hard way and you won’t forget it!! Remember window cleaning is a luxury service, if you value your service and your time then charge accordingly. If they don’t want to pay what your worth then move on because the next guy will. It’s better to charge more and work less than charge less and work more. Not only does undercutting jobs hurt you but it also hurts the other window cleaners in your area. I do admire how you are owning your mistake and being honest with the owners, it sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders. good luck in the future sir, happy cleaning!!!
I’m with @JaredAI on this one, soon as I read his first reply it was exactly what I was thinking. I’ve ONLY seen and made scratches like that on Old Crapsle I mean Old Castle glass. Just gnarly the glass they turn out and call high end!
Honestly , original poster, you sound like you know your stuff but just recently I heard that GANA put out a bulletin about razor blades not being an acceptable form of removing debris off glass anymore.
Dude, there isn’t anything you could have done with old castle glass. Next time you know when you see their logo…do an about face and walk away. Give them your price for maintenance once the CCU is complete and make fun of the outfit who did it.
For now. Don’t raise the price. You kinda can’t. Not unless you have a come to jesus talk with the job foreman. He might be able to throw some money for time and expenses your way. Just talk to him.
GANA does say that…and they also say that glass should be protected through all stages of construction. So if that happened we wouldn’t need razor blades ( or very little) on CCU. I come across protected glass very rarely.
I really appreciate that, you’ve helped me out a lot over the last couple years, not necessarily directly but through your involvement here on the site. It’s lessons like this that have taught me the most.
I’m obviously not going to raise my price for this job seeing as it’s completed, but there has been an interesting development in my situation with the management company that I will update my other post with to help any other poor souls who walk into something like I did. I will be having a sit down with them outlining my future pricing on their future projects and trying to educate them on the difference between construction cleanup and maintenance cleaning, something which they seem to not get, and in my eagerness decided to brush by in order to get in their good graces. Didn’t work. If they refuse to pay what I’m going to request ($3 per pane for construction cleanup and $1 per pane for maintenance cleaning, low for some of you but decent pay for me, and definitely not overpriced) I will walk away happy to be finished with them.
Thank you all for helping me see I have a lot to learn about many things, like how I can no longer do about cleaning up junk with a razor.
Everyone’s business model is different but I decided a while back to stop offering any CCU. We were continuously running into glass that was abused by contractors that couldn’t be cleaned using the manufacturer’s recommended cleaning methods. As a WC you get stuck choosing between using low risk cleaning methods with subpar results or voiding the manufacturer’s warranty and using the necessary tools to clean effectively, both of which take extremely too much time that (at least in my area) contractors are unwilling to compensate you fairly for. Best of luck in the future if you continue with CCU but be sure you know what you’re getting into, set fair expectations, and charge your worth.
