Hey guys I wanna say something about the bad rep I’ve seen about groupon and living social. To begin I want to state that I had a bad rainy season and for 2 months no calls no business nothing. In fact I had to get a part time job because it literally rained every day for 2 months. Now, I was desperate and had to get the phone ringing and fast. So yea I did it I called Groupon and Living social and put out the ad. I was a little afraid at first thinking that I would lose my ass off as some said in the forum.
Yes the pay was low I get that. However, my up sales 90% of the time are averaging 150 each! Not only that I use that combined deal to offer them my 3 time a year membership. Bingo repeat business every three months. I include the groupon price, which I keep 100% of plus all the additional windows, tracks and screens. I also keep all their information, a value in itself. I use my handy dandy invoice2go and wham I have all the info for future mail blasts.
So if your just starting out and are having some issues. Don’t listen to those others who say your gonna lose your ass. Use this free marketing to your advantage get creative with it and make some money! IT WORKS FOR ME. Hell just today I my up sell was $300 not bad for a days pay. And I am booked one week out and they are still calling.
I can see if you need money bad and are small sure it’s a quick shot in the arm. Have to put food on the table somehow.
In my experience those customers are bargain hunters and will not want to pay more the next time around. In their head, which is understandable, why pay $300 when last time I paid $150 for the exact same service.
Now personally I love when I bid a customer double what they were paying someone else. I show and teach them my companies value and 90% of the time they turn out to be my best customers. Giving referrals left and right. Now I’m saying your one of the companies I consider to be a low bidder, but you can turn these people into great customers.
You said you couldn’t get the phone ringing. Are you doing aggressive marketing? It’s important to be constant with your marketing. I send 10k- 15k direct mail pieces a month and hit the same neighborhoods with flyers every 5 weeks. You can get the phone to ring even with the rain. My 2nd best day for booked worked was on a rainy day.
I understand where your coming from as to the bargain hunters, however 90% of them book within the next few months. I make them members. So at the end of their current cleaning they are automatically booked for the next season. You call me a low bidder but have no idea as to what my pricing structure is. That is a little presumptuous and insulting. I see a lot of you guys do that in these forums. In fact I don’t need to have super high prices due to the lack of competition in my area, so it suits me fine and I’m not doing too bad for my first year in business.
I started this when I could not find a job and had a enough cash to buy me some basic equipment. No I do not have a **** load of money where I can afford 10-15 k flyers to mail. **** If I had that I sure as hell would not use groupon at all. but I did and it has served me well so far. It get my phone ringing rain or shine. Sure there are some who only want the x amount of windows that I advertise for and I’m ok with that it’s better than nothing and I get a lot of referrals because I do a kick ass job. Like I said before 90% use the coupon to save a little money and I get at least 150 each time as a markup. I can live with that.
The low bidder comments probably stem from what Groupon and Social living does for the entire industry, not necessarily what you do. I have done Groupon and I know how they work. You mentioned you made them members. Not sure what that means but if you in the long run, can make them all “members” after they bought your Groupon, then you have definitely done better than I did and most others here that have tried it. Please don’t be offended. This is a learning experience. If this works for you then that’s great. It’s as you say, better than doing nothing. Money needs to start rolling in somehow. I’m sure you do a “kick ass job” as I know I do.Your work ethic is not in question. Just know that you brought up the topic knowing that it was frowned on by many here on this forum. You shouldn’t be offended when you get comments to the contrary. I hope after you have been in business for a few years, you will see how these kinds of low prices coupon ideas, hurts all of us in the industry by making it hard to make a decent living. I know that I cannot pay insurance, wages to me employees, taxes and workers comp if I offer such low rates to my clients. If all my competitors decided to do this, it would hurt me and my employees. I hope you can see that this is not an attack on you as a person or a business owner.
I think most smart business owners would listen to the 95% that say it isn’t smart for your business, and especially the industry, than one person who it happens to work for.
Also, it surely isn’t free marketing. I don’t see how you can say that it is. You’re doing $100 worth of work for $25. How is that considered free marketing.
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I guess I am not understanding why it is so bad. Two months prior to my Groupon launch I had 0 phone calls I passed out flyers like a mad man and I got really just a few calls good jobs but not enough to pay my bills. After my Groupon and Living social deals I am booked 2 weeks out with an average bill of 200 per cleaning. I know I can potentially only get $25 but that is a very low percentage of what actually happens. I don’t think that I will always depend on these sources but to my surprise it is working. I know it was a huge risk for me (not concerned about the industry) but it worked and my bills are paid. Is that such a bad thing?
I wish I could afford to do more flyers but I can’t afford a bulk mailer and I pass out 1000-2500 door hangers every few months walking the streets with low results. I am open to any other ideas and help but I can’t say this is not working for me and I don’t regret it at all. So all you naysayers out there your not helping. In fact your a bit of a discouragement to those of us who lost their jobs and are doing whatever it takes to feed our families.
I concur… big mistake turned out not to be as stated with sales guy… You can up-sell @ your rate for other windows. winkwink
Kind-of hard when they put any additional windows at time of service 20% off on coupon… My experience and last … not customers i want.
More than one had coupons from groupon or?? for another cleaner to come for other windows. Just glad i didn’t sell much at all. Didn’t keep any info on them. Not even going to waste .46 on them
If i had seen posts on here first. never would have done it… just say’n
I guess the numbers are relative, what some consider a success others do not. I wouldn’t want to be booked with unprofitable jobs on the hopes I can upsell some to make money. It’s possible to get paid and lose money at the same time.
I think if you come up with a deal where you work the numbers right and not make it so your volunteering it can absolutely be worth doing. Making money on the back end is where it’s at. Offer say 15 to 20 panes at say $50. Most homes have more windows than that. Charge $4 to $5 for each additional. Also exposure. People will go directly through you at times. Being at someones house and have a sign out front or truck decals is great exposure to more business. Don’t forget not everyone will use the voucher. That is free money. Overall doing something once won’t hurt if you draw it up right and are smart about it. Don’t build your business around this though. Nice pick me up maybe
This may be a waste of time, but I have to at least TRY…
It’s ABSURD to say you are “not concerned about the industry.” If you are cleaning windows, you are a part of the industry. The reason the guys keep mentioning “the industry” is that if it is destroyed, we all suffer, including people like you who have jumped into the industry because of losing your job and needing a way to support yourself. Think for a minute if you would have even been interested in window cleaning if all you could make was $10 each job. You wouldn’t be interested at all because you can’t pay the bills at that rate. Well, that’s what will happen to the industry if people, out of desperation, intentionally undercharge. If that continues and becomes widespread, the public will respond and expect significantly lower prices and no one will be able to get business charging more. Then we all suffer because none of us will be able to support ourselves.
However, since you seem a little blind to the concept of the greater good, etc. let me personalize this for you-
If you continue on with window cleaning, your business will grow. As it does, your expenses will increase. Trust me on this. As that happens, your profit margin will lessen. To compound the issue, you’ve conditioned your client base to expect low prices. So your price stays low, but each year your expenses creep up and up, meaning you earn a little less each time. By the time you realize this, you will decide to charge all new customers a higher, more sustainable price, however, your schedule will be full of low paying, perhaps unprofitable, work.
Before you get offended, try for a couple minutes to think about what I and others are saying. Try to think about your long term well being (which is dependent on the well being of the industry).
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I’m not saying you can do 25k or even 10k direct mail per month. Thats just part of several different marketing methods i do.
The two biggest tricks to flyer and mailer marketing are the message and being consistent. People have very short attention spans on flyers. Your message needs to get through quickly.
And you need to keep hitting the same people all the time. Hit the neighbors you want to work in every month like clockwork. I cant tell you how many times Ive heard from new customers "this is the 4th or 5th flyer we’ve gotten from you so we finally decided to give you a call’.
Now I dont know if you can afford it but the best thing you can do to improve your marketing is join WCRA. Their flyers are 100000% better then my mine and the at cost printing will easily pay for the membership fee.
I understand and thank you for all your input. I never intended for this to be my only way to market myself. However I was able to use their system to benefit my “success” which we all define differently. It actually took me several months of developing a workable plan with this type of marketing which is designed to benefit them not us.
I only offer up to x amount of panes and then offer any additional panes at $3-4 each. Which 90% already want before I arrive. I almost always end up washing the entire house in and out at my normal rates. And the only qualifying windows are single hung standard windows. I’m not the cheapest in town either so keep in mind that I am no low bidder. Not to mention I am the only one in my area doing this.
I will and do learn from all of you veterans on this forum. Thank you
Dan
Ps. I will be sending a small 1500 piece mailer soon.
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Everyone has their own definition on what “successful " is
Keep doing what you are doing
Keep making money
Keep on being successful
There are not a lot of " millionaire” window cleaners here.
But there are tons of successful ones
Pax
As someone in their first year also, I’m going to admit I’ll be using it as a shot in the arm starting sometime mid Decemberish.
Like anything I believe it’s a tool - not an end all be all or the foundation of a business. Done wrong it could have big negative consequences, did a bit of work and analyzing the risk / benefit before I pulled the trigger. For me I am capping at 10 windows for a discount plus up sell is at full rates of which I will pocket 100%, also placed a lower limit on the amount sold, didn’t take the initial fee offering and placed a lower mileage limit than they recommended on what area it can be redeemed in to keep down fuel cost.
Maybe I will get repeats maybe not, maybe it will be a success maybe it will be a flop, but I’ve learned one thing, DOING business makes you more money via visibility & referral vs someone just seeing my door hanger in a neighborhood. I’m not only focused on those who buy my coupon - I’m focused on neighborhood “marketing impressions”. Take a stack of flyers and put them on the living socials neighbors doors, put up a yard sign while working, have my magnet on the back of my SUV. While I’m making LS peanuts I’m leaving a greater IMPRESSION vs door hangaring and waiting / wishing for winter work. Might not work or be cost effective for an established business - but when your a small business and the wife notices the (starving) elephant in the room because little work is coming in - the least you can do is feed the poor thing some peanuts.
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And as i said before. Salesman ( you will be able to sell all other windows @ your cost)
Reality… Coupons say’s any additional windows done at time of service 20% off…
Reality… They will take 50% of what comes in no matter what they tell you.
My experience dealing with each customer. When i asked them on the phone how many they wanted done… 10!
Reality… Ask me for 60% off my service price. Then take 50% of my 40%…
Good for business?? Good for the window cleaning business nationwide?? AHH no!!
Again i am very thankful i sold so little of them. As well as some where refunded because i was busy. Or they had storms and didn’t like my storm window price. And some changed their mind…
Hope yours might be better… But i ain’t holding my breath either
Thanks for the input, out of curiosity (have my initial paperwork in front of me) but an additional 20% off of all extra services? How did that sneak in? Oversight or did they tell you, you had to add it?
From what I am experiencing so far - I have the legal ability to control what is and what is not in my coupon, and to control the fine print.
I read the fine print in order to protect myself etc. Not just “sign and go”. I sent back the first “contract” for revision because I didn’t want to pay any of the CC processing fees which the salesman never informed me about, I made it a stipulation for me signing off on the deal and the revised paperwork entirely killed off the CC fee.
I could be completely wrong, and might be in to learn a lesson, but my reality is that I am slow. The other week I walked over 20 miles dropping flyers - scored about 3 jobs. With LS I’ve set things low enough where I am comfortable to run it as test. I’m not hoping for anything big, just enough to solve my curiosity and see if I can use it for my benefit. At least I wont be sitting on my rear end all winter with cabin fever. (not sure how you get cabin fever in sunny Texas but…)
I am curious for you guys on here who have been “burned” is what kind of risk analysis did you do before, and how much time did you spend looking at the angles before signing off or jumping on the wagon? Did you read ALL of the fine print AND the AD before it went live before poking your finger? Did you crunch numbers? What made you decide to go for it in the end? Did you settle for their offers or haggle? (I expect answers lol)
I haven’t sealed this thing in blood yet so it’s your last shot to bring me back from the brink of the abyss
