How do you count panes/windows?

I just wanted to know how everyone counts panes and windows. For instance, is a double hung window count as 2 panes but 1 window? And when you’re talking about pricing for the customers are you talking about per pane or per window? It seems these two terms are used interchangeably sometimes.

I use pane count as a means to arrive at a single price to present to the customer. Not all panes are created equal (size, location, debris, etc.)

When providing a phone estimate (not firm quote), I do ask the customer to provide a window count as a reference, combined with window type and access details.

A double-hung (say, 3’ x 4’) that contains two pieces of glass with no muntins is two panes and one window. The same sized casement would be one pane and one window. A large picture window would be one window, but the equivalent of 2-4 panes.

While the two terms are somewhat interchangeable I always refer to panes by side. Each casement window has in fact 2 panes from my count, one exterior pane and one interior pane. This helps when the customer request an exterior only bid. As Larry pointed out bigger windows demand a higher pane count.

I keep it simple, whatever the style of window, be it a double hung, a double hung with storms, a single framed in, a french style, a second story window requiring ladder set up time, here is what I do. I know how many of each style of window that can be cleaned in an hour and I know how much I want to make each hour. I simply divide, for example lets say you want to earn $30.00 per hour and you can clean say 10 of a certain style of window per hour 30 divided by 10 equals a $3.00 price per that style of window. just count each style separately and multiply times the price each. I have a price per window estimate sheet with eight of the most common windows in my area already on it, so all I need to do is mark each one down in the correct style then add the column and maybe add a little for travel time. Did that sound simple?

nope :slight_smile:

Nope, not really.

I charge $10 per window. That’s $10 for a double hung, $10 for a casement the same size. $10 for a picture. $10 for a small transom. It all works out in the end.

Do you charge any different if you need to use a ladder, for example?

What about if you need to remove and replace items from a garden window?

This is kinda what I thought. There is no set definition for pane. So when we give our per pane price (to each other… I’m not a fan of giving it to customers… but that’s me) how do we know what they’re talking about unless they tell us?

Nope same prices all around. Sure I may make less money on certain windows, but it evens out. I suppose if there was some crazy situation where the windows. Were terribly hard to access I would need to account for that in my pricing but I haven’t had to yet.
The only thing I charge more for is frenchies.

Thanks man, I though that I was the only one doing this, and deeply inside I got me thinking that if I was loosing money or what I was doing wrong.
But, like you said, it all evens out at the end.

The tall, narrow windows next to the entrance doors (Sidelights) are the same for me than a bathroom window or a kitchen window, if I have a bif entry window (Over main door) I count it like 2 or 3 windows depending on size.

As most of the guys stated here, is a pane or a window, is jus glass, but there are a lot of other factors to keep in mind (access, dirt level and more) but is only 2 or 3 windows are to like that in a house with 60 windows … it makes no sense to do a lot of math I guess.

But that’s just me, and you :slight_smile:

“A lot” is subjective.

I learned factor bidding from Jim Willingham. I use a very simplified version.

I make notes in a Palm Pilot. I count total panes (or pane equivalents), total panes requiring ladder access, and additional work (furniture, for example.)

Each of those factors has a $ weight. Simple multiplication and addition yields the final price. To me, not a lot of math.

Example: (I’ll use $10 per pane in/out, $2 per cut-up in/out, and $4 per pane per ladder and per access premiums as an example)
F(Front) - 10[4L(ladder)]
R(Right) - 6
RR(Rear) -22[12L(ladder)]+10CU(cut-up)
L(Left) - 4[garage workbench A(access)]
Total - 42[16L]+10CU+4[A]=(42 x $10)+(16 x $4)+(10 x $2)+(4 x $4)=$420+$64+$20+$16=$520 quote

To each his own Larry.
While you do all those calculations I’m done with the “hard to reach” windows.

You spend that “extra” time doing the quote, I spent that “extra” time while cleaning the windows.

I always try to keep it simple, and what you do is simple for you since you’re used to do it that way.

But again, do what works better for you, is think that’s the name of the game.

My method probably takes a couple minutes longer than yours, Carlos, and I’m left with a documented record of the work-site (I synch at home to my desktop customer management tool.)

Perhaps it’s also simpler for me because math is a breeze…

Let’s put things into perspective.

This thread was started by a newbie without experience seeking information.

I remember starting out and simply counting panes. On many occasions, a few panes with access challenges (inside and out) meant spending quite a bit of time to clean them. This is my point about not all windows being equal. It doesn’t just work out when you are starting out.

Your answers do make sense for a WC’er with experience.

I rarely provide service at the time I provide a quote.

As stated earlier, my calculations take a couple of minutes at most.

I agree pretty much with all of what Larry has said. This line of thinking is more suited to WC’er’s like him and myself that are sole operators - one man shows. And especially for those new to the biz. This type of precise quoting not only insures that you’re charging correctly but it also helps you determine time required to get the job done and possibly book other appointments for the same day.

Example: Someone tells you they have 20 windows and you charge $10 per window regardless of style. You arrive and find out that several windows have multiple panes that need to be removed to properly clean, or hard to access glass. Sure, you might be able to up the price at the time but it will still take you longer than anticipated and could screw up your ability to get that job as well as your next job done that day. (less likely if you have wc crews but a definite possibility if you’re a one-man-show)

Plus, my experience so far in this business is that many people don’t know how to count windows or they purposely try to make the job seem easier/smaller than what is truly is. Intentional or not.

So Californians aren’t the only ones who can’t count windows huh?
I’ve learned that (for me at least) it’s best to not even ask how many windows they think they have. I now ask what their apx square footage (this also gives me a more accurate idea of how long a job should take) is I then explain that most homes 1 window per 75-100 square feet and give them an ESTIMATE (that’s dead on 95%) of the time. I explain that when I get there I will do an exact window count before we start working.
Upon arrival, the windows are counted, and now that I think about it more, there have been a few occasions where there were difficult to access windows that I did tell the customer I would have to count that window as either 1.5 or 2 windows depending on the difficulty of the particular window.
I think Larrys method is for sure the most accurate way to do it. I will admit however, I suck at math, and it would take me 45 minutes to do that. Also sometimes (and this will be the case more and more in the near future) I am have the window cleaning tech do the actual bid, and it just seems easier for me to tell him to count all of the windows and if it’s a really difficult window count it twice and times it by $10

Just my 2 cents, this work well in my area because all of the homes in my service area are less than 20 (most less than 10) years old and very predictable.

I agree with you Mark that’s why I never do phone quotes. I can’t handle the surprises.

I charge a flat rate per average size pane. For french cut ups I price & count in groups of three to keep it simple. Picture windows are more. I try to keep it simple.

Oh! I never ask a customer to count their windows unless I want a good laugh when I get to their house. :eek:

I like to go by the window type. However there are times you have to bid per pane.

I have a set price for Double hungs. Cut ups Storm Sets ect…

Bump

keeping track of this excellent post