Hydrophilic vs. hydrophobic - the later sucks

ok so it seems that as Im getting into the water spot removal area of our industry im learning that hard water will stain the window if its left to dry on the glass.

here is the problem. hydrophobic treated glass repels water into llittle beads which supposedly pushes the water to run off the glass. it doesnt always work that way, some beads of water stay on the glass, Im assuming the beads get hung up on the portion of glass that is warped or damaged at the micro level. so it dries and leaves more water spots, even if the glass is treated with hydrophobic sealer it still spots.

I have never used a hydrophillic sealer but i hear that it sheets the water off glass, meaning that there are no beads of water running off the glass, every thing just sheets off in one motion leaving no water trails or opportunitys for the water to spot.

anyone have experience with treating glass with hydrophobic sealer?

I have a store front that gets hit hard with the water sprinkler because the flowers are really close to the windows. I polished the windows and removed the stains, then applied mr hardwater envirocoat hydrophobic sealer. the next day as the sprinklers hit the windows again, the sealer did its job in beading up the water but the beads just stayed on the glass and left stains again.

i have attempted to contact the property management to do something about the sprinkler but the fact remains that regardless of sprinklers, isnt the purpose of a sealer is to protect glass from hard water regardless if its getting hit by a sprinkler? if the solution in my situation is to fix the sprinkler from hitting the window then i wouldnt need to waste money on a sealer anyway.

i’ve had good success with a product called nano ultra. it’s hydrophilic. its performs like you said- the water just sheets off. it’s pretty amazing, but it’s sort of labor intensive. it’s a three-step process to apply it.

a hydrophobic sealer might bead up and leave spots, but i would think that it would make them easier to clean off, so maybe there is some benefit.

Did you try to clean the spots up?

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The sealer is doing it’s job. The glass will still get dirty. Nothing you can do to prevent that. Luckily, or else we’d be all looking for different jobs. It is there to prevent it from building up into the pores of the glass. Nano ultra is probably top of the line. I’ve had good luck with Bio-Clean, but doesn’t last as long as Nano Ultra or Enviocoat. Both sold in the WCR store.

yeah i went back about a month later after the customer reported that the stains came back. I did the repolish with my machine but this time the stains came off a lot easier.

After cleaning I re-applied a liquid diamond sealer (hydrophobic), suppposed to be expensive stuff and a window cleaning friend told me about it.
CRL Clear Liquid Diamond Hydrophobic Protective Treatment - Step 2 - Rakuten.com Shopping

well see how it does, im going to go back and check out the glass next week.
im going to order the nano ultra hydrophillic sealer that Caleb suggests just to have in my arsenal and to use if the liquid diamond doesnt work.

Just remember, until they fix the sprinkler issue, they will come back. Probably not as bad, but there will be water that dries on the glass and spots up. Make sure the customer realizes that.

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I wish i understood that when i first gave these guys a quote on the job, i told them that once i polish out the old stains ill apply a sealer that will protect the glass and prevent the stains from comiing back. I didnt realize that a hydrophobic sealer does not do that.

nano ultra went out of business…I cant find their product being sold anywhere, looks like it is discountinued which is a tragedy because according to the utube videos the hydrophillic nanoultra sealer performed superior to anything that is hydrophobic.

It does prevent/help the stains from imbedding into the glass. It just makes it less noticeable, and easier to clean.

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I like the envicoat

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It also work good for me to.

I love this stuff. Would really like to bring it to my subforum “Surfaces”. Regarding hydrophylic verses hydrophobic I think it depends what it is being used for. Hydrophobics first came out for jet canopies;…not windows. Then the product was marketed to the auto industry. Finally it made it to the architectural world (windows). So the original purpose was to bead rain and make it roll off for improved vision. NOT to prevent hard water spots from sticking to windows. This came as an afterthought.

Hard water drops can and do degrade hydrophobic glass sealants. Some sealants are more resistant to chemical attack by the high pH of water drops than others. Further, hydrophobic coatings definitely do promote the formation of water spots. Not prevent them. I am guessing that hydrophylic sealants would spread out the mineral deposits of hard water making the window easier to clear. Another reason for this is that water drops reach a very high pH the last few seconds before complete evaporation. If you look at a water spot you will see the outline (or spot ring) where most of the minerals are concentrated. I would like to test several different hydrophylics against high pH alkali degradation. Another very interesting fact is that the so called self cleaning glass uses a photocatalytic hydrophylic coating. NOT a hydrophobic coating/sealant. I should temper this bent by saying one more thing. That hydrophylic is not completely hydrophylic. We are really talking about a sliding scale that is defined by a number. This is the kind of stuff I will be writing about in the Vision Glass Detailer. If you want to be on my list just email me.

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