I have done both, but I have way more time in a chair on ropes than WFP. I am not a fan of WFP. I have done buildings as low as 4-5 floors from a chair. I don’t mean to sound full of myself, but I was trained by the best guys in the industry, in my opinion, and I am really fast and really good. I have a lot of experience on ropes, from mountain warfare courses in the Marines, to climbing, to changing lightbulbs, to window cleaning. At 3 floors I am using a 40 foot extension ladder. Even that I find faster, more efficient, and gets better results than a WFP. I mean you can’t see the windows and you aren’t using soap or wiping frames. How do you know they’re clean?
I guess maybe if there aren’t anchor points on the roof OK. Or maybe if the roof is really sloped and you don’t want to walk around on it fine. I don’t know how stringent everyone is with their anchor points, But I have literally tied a rope around parts of the building itself, stink pipes, run a 500 foot rope over the building and tied to something on the ground. To me this all preferable to using a WFP. Even hauling a 40 foot extension ladder around is better and faster, again for me personally, than using a WFP.
Again I don’t want to start anything other than a conversation. I’m just curious what WFP users reasons are for going that route rather than ropes or ladders.
But you can really get dirty stuff clean, even the frames, with a WFP? When you can’t even see them? Without soap and wiping frames? And your shoulders aren’t destroyed after days of using a WFP?
I mean I’m going to put up a 40footer, climb up do the windows and get them perfect in less than 60 seconds, climb down, move the ladder over, rinse and repeat. Meanwhile I’m not messing with hoses or filters or poles. Now I would ideally have another guy going behind me with a shorter ladder to get the next floor. You usually can’t reach the floor below the top from a 40 foot unless your super tall like yours truly. But spending 90 seconds or more scrubbing with a WFP, then having to go inside to make sure you didn’t have drips from the top frame ruining your work, then god forbid you have to redo a window with a WFP.
Sounds like you have zero experience with water fed. That’s fine, but as I said before, it just another tool in the box and yes it works extremely well.
However, I don’t think it replaces nose to glass on 4 stories and higher, and if I can bang windows out on ground floor I use Trad tools.
Regarding shoulder pain, keep your hands below your shoulders when poling and you should be fine.
Sorry I edited while you replying. But I have a little more than zero experience with WFP. Not much you are correct, but not zero either. I guess I just never really figured it out though. But I mean when you have butterfly crap on the windows, bird crap, sticky sap, you can really get that stuff off without seeing it and without soap using a WFP?
Yes, for the majority. I can actually feel the brush have major traction when the glass is dirty, and start to glide when the dirt has been removed. Then a final rinse leaves a spot free result.
WFP is fantastic for frame cleaning.
To address your question about not being able to see the glass… That’s why I don’t do anything above 4 stories with WFP, I can’t see the glass above and it’s just too hard. Let those jobs go to chair guys.
Well I get what you’re saying about friction for sure, I mean you can feel dirt on a large scale with a mop and squeegee so I know that feeling. But detailing too? Little tiny butterfly turds and stuff? You can really be sure you’re getting all that stuff and the window is perfect with a WFP when it’s 2 or 3 floors up?
Do you even prefer a WFP to like a 24 foot ladder for 2 story work?
Edit- Again I do not mean any disrespect to other professionals chosen method. I’m just drinking a vodka tonic and have no one else to talk to about window cleaning on a Saturday night.
so you razor all that crap on 40 foot high window?
you rinse the glass to get the soap residue off?
you hand wipe all the frames?
edit: you have me at a disadvantage i have no vodka
I think for some it is a risk trade-off. For example, you may have mostly small buildings and it’s not worth the safety equipment investment for one or two buildings. Personally, I like rope access work, but not for 4 story buildings.
For me, I’m not getting on a 40’ ladder, done it, no thanks. I’d rather mess with hoses and a 10lb pole than move around a 50+lb ladder and then be up and down it all day. Also I’m not using ropes, they scare the piss out of me. I’ll let someone else do all that stuff.
2 story ladder work and 3 maaaaybe 4 story wfp. Plenty of work for us in that realm. WFP cleans frames quite well at 3 stories I imagine the same is true for 5.
Yea I would rather carry a 40 foot ladder, set the legs safely, have the proper angle, THEN climb up, clean the glass, THEN climb down, repeat however many times.
40 foot ladders suck, they’re not fun and by the time you e got that 4th story glass done by ladder I’ve already cleaned the building and sent the invoice.
I suppose you’re referencing a commercial project at 4 stories and in my 14 years I have yet to meet a property manager that is that picky about the outside only commercial window cleaning they’ve hired us for.
Hey, maybe you need a 40 foot ladder or you wanna show everyone how strong you are and that’s fine.
I’ll stick to setting up my waterfed pole, dragging my little air hose around a building, cleaning glass at a very high level of quality, doing it much safer, and a lot faster than climbing up and down a giant ladder.
I’ve climbed 40 foot ladders in the past and I won’t ever do it again. If a 4-6 story job needs a lift I’ll rent one, if they need to do drops I’ll send them to a company capable, or I’ll make my money and do it with a waterfed if I feel the job will look great upon completion.
That’s a bunch of hog wash … if shit needs to be scraped then that’s a different story. You just went from a 3500.00 wfp wash to a 5500.00 dollar plus lift wash. Those numbers are just arbitrary, but you get what I’m saying.
We get that you’ve been trained an are highly efficient at balsam chair work , but to claim going up an down a 40’ ladder 50-100 times rather than using a WFP is a better option is just insane.
Let me just start off by saying, I’m not trying to be overly aggressive with this, but that seems like a comment added to make your feelings on chair/ladder work appear more reasonable. But if you’ve done any actual WFP work, outside of a quick window or two, you’d know the results you get with it are on par with trad work if done right.
Additionally, saying water without soap doesn’t clean is kind of ridiculous; that assertion completely overlooks the brush and flowing water.
Which leads to another important point: Ancillary WFP tools matter. If you tried a first time clean with a nylon brush, your likely not going to get the results you’re after.
Use a bore’s hair brush or alpha pad? Completely different story. That to say nothing of goosenecked bronze wool attachments.
All that to say: I’m doubtful your opinion comes from a place of true familiarity with WFP techniques and gear.
Perhaps watch/train yourself with the best guys in that realm of the window cleaning game. Youtube “The window cleanse” @TheWindowCleanse or SteveO, or Luke the window cleaner - all some of the best in the waterfed game. The results you can get will have you selling that 40’ ladder and picking up some new gear.
You’re absolutely right and I apologize to everyone for coming off the way I did. My experience with WFP was from working for a guy who started a company knowing nothing about cleaning windows other than what he saw on youtube, and this was 10 years ago so much less info back then. He bought a very expensive rig with all the filters and everything, but he had no idea how to work it. And I was a chair and ladder guy so I didn’t know either. The thing was this huge heavy home made contraption that was like an industrial sized pressure washer in size and weight. It was always leaking or not filtering the water properly, it was a pain to set up, the drips that would run down from the top of the frame were always dirty and nothing ever looked clean.
He had me do this huge 3 floor university building with it, miles of glass, in the hot ass Hawaii summer. I didn’t know about belay glasses, I killed my neck and shoulders doing it. And dragging this thing all around the building and having to to go up and check the windows and see that they weren’t clean and re doing stuff was just mind numbing.
So yeah that was my first and only experience with a WFP system and I hated it. I realize that obviously the tech has gotten better in the last 10 years and with proper equipment and training on how to use it I have no doubt it works just like everyone here says.
Let me also say that I don’t love using a 40 foot ladder, no one does. It’s just that with my experience with a WFP, even the 40 footer seemed like a better option. And especially doing 3 or 4 floors from ropes, even with the short drops and walking back up to the roof, seemed better to me than using a WFP. In seattle there were plenty of jobs that were 3 or 4 floors and we would chair it. I like it it’s fun for me. A WFP isn’t fun for me, even if the machine I used had worked, it’s still boring mindless work.
So I’m sorry for coming off as pretentious or stuck in my ways or misinformed. Which obviously I was since the only machine I used was clearly not functioning properly I did not have the experience to make the comparison.
Sorry to all I was clearly in the wrong! Have a great week!
