@Gotlift and if you are worried about costs here are a few thoughts:
Build costs overtime into your pricing. Obviously starting out you dont want to blow up your pricing, but once you start to get a customer list going… break down your numbers…know your numbers… and pass on your operating costs back to the customer. If you are looking to truly grow insurance will pay for itself. You will land larger accounts because you have insurance. Its something you can put on your marketing (Insured & bonded)… and it makes you look like a legit business to all your customers instead of a fly-by-night.
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Thanks Kyle. I will get insurance without a doubt. I should have a second quote, from a different company, today. I also asked for the first quote to be revised without property coverage and with CCC. I’ll likely start with GL only to keep my expenses down and add coverage as I grow and as I add equipment. The plan has always been to do this right from the beginning and see where it goes from there.
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That doesn’t sound bad at all. But yeah, just shop around. JDW might be a lot higher than that however but give them a call. My insurance also includes my truck which is a big pita in NM.
My insurance agent is my customer and their building is $100 every 4 weeks and plus his house, it pretty much offsets my insurance price. PLUS, and more important to me than price, is knowing that he’s going to fight for me and not screw me when it comes time to file a claim. I’d rather go with someone I know who will back me up over the cheapest price.
As far as CCC goes, if you want to do construction clean up, then you really should look at getting it. But the scratch waiver should be your first line of defense and I’ve got a lawyer who drafted mine who said it’s absolutely defensible.
If you’re looking at doing houses, you could probably replace pretty much any window for say $1000. Keep a buffer in the savings account to cover stuff like that. If a ladder goes through a window, I’d just pay it. If your ladder falls on their concert grand piano, THEN file a claim which is not CCC.
Where you really want CCC is construction clean up. You do NOT want to do a new strip mall and be accused of scratching every piece of commercial glass. THAT will shut you down.
Having a personal connection with the agent would definitely be a plus! Always good advice Jared. Thanks.
Just got off the phone with my agent. He said the care and custody clause is only if you have possession of a customers property. For example, an autobody shop that has your car. He said general liability covers the work we do. I asked him if my crew having “control” of a customers house while window cleaning would fall under that and he said no. Liability covers that, CCC would apply for any property that I have in my possession on my property, in my truck, or on my persons.
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No, liability doesn’t cover what you’re working on. If you scratch windows while cleaning, only CCC covers that.
Most insurance agents don’t know that. The underwriter will give you specific examples.
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Kyle here is a very informational thread that I think will be very helpful to everyone in this thread…
http://windowcleaner.com/t/do-you-have-care-custody-control-coverage/27427
I really hope this helps to clear the air on Care, Custody and Control.
@Kyle you need to be talking to the underwriter ect not your agent.
Thanks for that! So, do we ask for CCC coverage, Good Will Coverage, or Faulty Workmanship Coverage? It sounds like CCC isn’t an actual coverage, but a typical exclusion in the policy.
My quote is through Acuity and the PDF states that they specialize in Window Cleaning.
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Yeah, CCC is an exemption. You have to ask for it specifically. I wouldn’t worry about it right now. Maybe once you get a couple of employees and start doing a lot of CCU.
They specialize in insurance. JDW is the only one that specializes in Window Cleaning.
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Just got Acuity to insure my truck. Haven’t had to file a claim yet, so i can’t vouche for their service, but my insurance agent recommended them also for window cleaning.
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Wow, just read the thread you suggested and now I’m kinda scared. Gonna check my policy as soon as i get back to the States. It really wasn’t confidence-inspiring that not even the underwriters, much less the agents, could give clear and concrete information. I have to admit, i was hesitant to believe when the insurance agent said “yup, that’s covered” to the various scenarios i gave including scratched glass. I know i was definitely lied to when i got my truck insurance because when it was later totaled they wouldn’t cover the toolbox or contractor rack, which i had specifically asked about. I find it disgusting how insurance companies are among the richest corporations in the world and have built their immense fortunes in part by essentially lying and screwing over the common people.
Rant over, but i have a question: It seems JDW only covers three stories and lower. What do you guys do for above three? (Cause I’d like to get into higher once i have a water fed pole.)
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No problem!
@JaredAI Jared gave you good information.
And like @Skipper said its worth the extra money for the piece of mind.[quote=“Skipper, post:29, topic:39523”]
A little more expensive but you get what you pay for
[/quote]
No, I just don’t think the agents are conscious of what they don’t cover. They’re thinking of the contractor who goes on the mall roof and drops a hammer through the sky light - yeah, that’s covered. Maybe you’re moving a ladder and it falls on a BMW - yeah, that’s covered.
What they don’t think about is that YOU are in CONTROL and CUSTODY and CARE of the window that you are scraping. It’s a very fine line and you have to get it in writing.
I had to drag my agent through several scenarios before we both understood what I would and would not be covered.
JDW and 3 stories - if you’re using a wfp, then you’re single story. Doesn’t matter how tall your pole reaches, what matters is where are your feet.
But yeah, it sucks because you might have a job where you need a lift that goes up above 3 stories and you can’t do it.
On this note, I had to SPECIFICALLY detail how much work will be done with my feet on the ground and how much would would be with my feet off the ground. As soon as you step up off the ground you’re in a different insurance bracket. Some agencies allow 10 feet, some allow 1 foot. It’s the difference between classification 9014 and 9170. If you haven’t specified that, then you’re probably in the higher category (9140) and it’s about twice as much as the 9014.
In TCF I specify each job as “Ground” and “Off Ground” and they have separate prices. So if I get audited, I can pull out how much off ground I did and verify the ratios. I’m about 95% ground to 5% off ground.
Oh, and that can be a HUGE incentive to mastering your pole technique! 
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Im happy that thread has opened your eyes, protect your bottom line.
I would always want to be over covered then under covered any day of the week, the additional cost is for peace of mind (in my opinion), freak things happen that can turn your world upside down.
Here’s the list of examples that I got from Acuity. Pay attention to each scenario.
The following situation describes some scenarios where property of others may be damaged that some may think could be covered under the Voluntary Property Damage endorsement. Read each separately and determine if each separate scenario would likely be covered or not.
Situation #1
Eric decides to start a little janitorial operation. Being a good business owner, Eric secures coverage with ACUITY and ensures his agent has placed the Voluntary Property Damage endorsement on his policy. Joel Wade has hired Eric to clean his house. Eric arrives at the Wade estate with his FloorCleaner 2000 floor cleaning machine, excited about his new customer. Eric starts up the machine, not realizing that he left it on the ‘Bare Floor’ setting. The machine chews up Joel’s prized shag carpeting, creating a bare spot in the carpet. Is the carpet damage covered?
Answer Situation #1—Misadjusted floor cleaner causes damage to carpet
This damage is not covered. The damage was due to faulty workmanship, in this case, the failure to have the machine set properly.
Situation #2
Concerned Joel would be mad at him; Eric tries to cover up the damage by moving a nearby couch over the area. However, Eric doesn’t realize Joel nails all of his furniture to the floor to prevent theft. Eric breaks the leg off the couch. Is the couch damage covered?
Answer Situation #2—Furniture is damaged while it is being moved
This damage is covered. The damage was not directly caused by faulty workmanship.
Situation #3
Still pulling hard on the couch, Eric drags it across the carpeting. Due to the now sharp pieces where couch’s legs once were, the prized shag carpeting is further damaged. Regardless if the damage in #1 is covered, is this new damage to the carpeting covered?
Answer Situation #3—Flooring is damaged due to reasons not related to floor cleaning
This damage is covered. The damage was not directly caused by faulty workmanship.
Situation #4
Hoping Joel is a forgiving individual, Eric resumes his cleaning activities. He adjusts the FloorCleaner 2000 to the correct setting and takes the machine to another room. While cleaning the carpet in the second room, Eric sees that the cleaning solution is turning Joel’s white carpet gray. Eric then realizes that he was supposed to use new solution, because of the big warning label on the FloorCleaner 2000 telling him that using old cleaning solution can stain carpeting. Is the damage to the carpet in room #2 covered?
Answer Situation #4—Carpeting is damaged after failure to follow normal cleaning procedures
This damage is not covered. Faulty workmanship (failure to follow prudent carpet cleaning procedures) caused the damage.
Situation #5
Angry that he’s ruined another carpet, Eric kicks the FloorCleaner 2000 in a fit of rage. His powerful kick ruptures the cleaning fluid compartment, spilling solution onto the carpet in a third room, damaging it as well. Is the damage to the carpet in room #3 covered?
Answer Situation #5—Flooring is damaged due to reasons not related to floor cleaning
The damage to the carpet is covered. The damage was not caused by faulty work.
Situation #6
Thinking he could still salvage Joel as a customer, Eric retrieves his spare cleaning machine to clean the one remaining room Joel had asked him to clean. Eric carefully checks every setting on the machine to make sure it’s correct. He opens up a fresh bottle of the solution recommended by the International Floor Cleaners Institute for the carpet he’s about to clean. He calls the carpet manufacturer to get their recommendation on what solution to use to make sure he’s using the correct liquid. After all of his checking, Eric turns on the machine and starts cleaning the last section of carpet. Halfway through, he realizes that the solution being used is staining this carpet as well. Is the damage to the carpet in room #4 covered?
Answer Situation #6—The proper solutions and settings are used, damage results anyway
The damage is (likely) covered. Unlike situation #1 and #4, this damage isn’t the result of faulty work. The work performed was prudent and according to the standards of carpet cleaners. Work was likely not ‘incorrectly performed’ in this instance.
Situation #7
Figuring his carpet cleaning career was over, but still wanting to do something nice for Joel, Eric picks up Joel’s damaged couch to load it into his truck so he can take it back to his shop to repair it. Overestimating his strength, he stumbles while carrying the couch, catching the couch’s upholstery on a doorknob and ripping it. Is the ripped upholstery on the couch covered?
11/3/08
Answer Situation #7—Personal Property is damaged while it is being loaded into insured’s vehicle
The damage to the couch is not covered. While the endorsement does provide coverage to Personal Property in the care, custody, or control of the insured, there are two exceptions. The property can’t be on the premises of the insured (that is, this endorsement doesn’t replace Bailee’s Coverage) and the property can’t be in the act of being loaded or unloaded from an auto (that is Cargo coverage).
Some other examples of damage that would not be covered with the endorsement due to ‘faulty work’.
A window washer uses an old squeegee to clean a window. Some exposed metal on the squeegee scratches the window that’s being cleaned.
A trim carpenter is installing some crown molding. A nail gun intended to be used for framing is inadvertently used and the larger nails damage the molding.
A painter damages trim work because they didn’t mask it off properly.
A carpenter is peeling labels off a window with a razor blade after they’re installed and scratches the window.
Now, I’m not a lawyer, but it seems to me if you combine #1 and #5 you should be good. If you scratch a window (#1) then you’re not covered. But if you throw a ladder through the scratched window (#5) you’re covered.
Anyone want to test this theory?
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Joel and Eric both need a drink, preferably from a plastic bottle in a padded room. And yes, I was thinking a misguided ladder may be the solution to many coverage issues!
Nope!
