Please Help! Supplies/technique differences; commercial vs residential

Hey guys, just starting my own window cleaning company. Thought I would be mainly residential and maybe some store front, but yesterday when I was cleaning windows at a building in hopes of getting some homeowners to approach me, I was actually asked if I would be able to put in a bid on a commercial account. I have spent allllll day on this forum (coffee, coffee, coffee) trying to learn everything I can about commercial window cleaning, and trying to figure out the differences from resi and commercial. The building has 630 panes and the inside and outside would need cleaned. The building is between 50-70 feet high. After researching the different methods of cleaning windows at such height (ladder, lift, or WFP) I have decided that I would go with a WFP. So here are my questions after todays research.
1.) What other supplies do I [U]need[/U] to buy, if any, to go with the WFP? (di tanks? hoses? boars hair brush? vehicle equipment needed to transport?)
2.) Are there any pre cleaning methods necessary when doing commercial work, like scraping? or does the WFP take care of all that.
3.) What is a typical upcharge when you have to break out cleaning chemicals for hard water stains like one restore, or winsol crystal clear 550?
4.) Are there indoor kits on the market that can reach windows at a height of 50-70 feet?
5.) If you could guesstimate, what would be a rough timetable of the learning curve of the technique a WFP and an indoor water kit would require?

Hopefully this isn’t too many questions! Even one answer would be helpful! I’m going to continue to look on the site for the answers, but any help would be appreciated!

forgot this one.
6.) how long would a job of this size take? The threads I have seen just posted an amount of days for the time it took them, but it doesn’t say the hours worked during those days. Just curious so I can give the most accurate bid possible. I know I will probably be slower than an experienced WFP user, but a ball park would be helpful.

That’s a whole lotta work for a newbe. I’d say buy your wfp and pure water cart and get a few jobs under your belt before going into a monster like that.

I agree , I don’t mean to be negative . But I’m thinking your biting more than you can handle. I would out source it , help out and learn .

But I could be wrong , I don’t know you or your background

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@G & R Mobile Wash It’s definitely a lot of work, especially for a newb. But I didn’t go out and look for this bid, it literally just fell into my lap, so I figured I should at least give it a look. I get what you are saying to buy the WFP and pure water cart, then get a few jobs under my belt. But I find this opportunity attractive because it could guarantee the funding of buying such supplies immediately. Plus it would be a huge difference maker in the aspect of which company am I building. The 95% that fail in the first year, or the 5% that make it? Also, I was thinking if I got the bid, I would try to schedule out a month after the acceptance of bid so I could have some time to work on a WFP until I start dreaming about it. Is that practical, or no? [MENTION=26504]GenaroGuzman[/MENTION] Hey man, I’m not taking it as negativity, I know you’re just giving your honest opinion, and that’s what I would hope you do everytime, no matter how crazy my questions are! I know this task will be very challenging, time consuming, stressful and all the above. If I could outsource this job one time and only one time then I wouldn’t even think about it, i’d do it and just help out. But I don’t think that’s likely, and thinking about the reoccurring business I could miss out over the course of multiple years because I wasn’t willing to put in the time or effort it took to learn how to do this job like it needs to be done seems like all the things I could experience doing this job noted above x29019201. lol

And I don’t mean any disrespect to you vets, I appreciate your opinions and I understand your opinions come from experience, which makes you wiser than I. I’m just trying to explain my thought process behind it all, if I’m completely wrong and sounding stupid just say so. But before, or after you call me crazy, would you mind answering one question? :smiley:

Any pictures of the place?

beyond clean glass do they have any demands?

How many stories are you insured for?

It would help if you posted a picture.

There is a HUGE difference between 50ft and 70ft (and I don’t mean “20 feet”). I’ve done 5 story buildings before (55ft or so) and you really need a helper to help you or else your shoulders will kill you in 10 minutes. Unless you’re iron man material.

There’s also very few poles that go up to 70 ft. I know I don’t want to do any over 5 stories because the pole gets super squirrely at that height.

1.) What other supplies do I [U]need[/U] to buy, if any, to go with the WFP? (di tanks? hoses? boars hair brush? vehicle equipment needed to transport?)
Umm, it depends. You might be able to get by with nylon, but without examining the glass, I couldn’t say. And without knowing the tds of your area, I can’t say whether a di tank will get you by. My average tds is 700-800 so I need an RO + DI everywhere I go.

Call WCR and they’ll talk you through it.

2.) Are there any pre cleaning methods necessary when doing commercial work, like scraping? or does the WFP take care of all that.
It’s really hard to scrape 70ft in the air if you’re not in a chair. So I would quote it as wfp only and I wouldn’t guarantee the fifth through seven stories wouldn’t have spotting.

3.) What is a typical upcharge when you have to break out cleaning chemicals for hard water stains like one restore, or winsol crystal clear 550?
I don’t use those chemicals so you’d have to ask someone else. I use bio-clean.

4.) Are there indoor kits on the market that can reach windows at a height of 50-70 feet?
You can make one with a backpack sprayer.

5.) If you could guesstimate, what would be a rough timetable of the learning curve of the technique a WFP and an indoor water kit would require?
Depends. It took me over 6 months to figure out how to effectively and efficiently clean in the southwest. Midwesterners have it a little easier without the baked on dirt, but there is still a learning curve.

6.) how long would a job of this size take? The threads I have seen just posted an amount of days for the time it took them, but it doesn’t say the hours worked during those days.
I can do the outside of a 4/5 story hotel (4 in front, 5 in back) in about 6 hours. That’s with a helper and I still split the 6 hours over 2 days because that 5th story is a neck breaker. Seven stories - you’d better schedule a chiropractic appointment at the end of each day.

I think the key here is that with experience you’d be able to answer how long it would take.

But I find this opportunity attractive because it could guarantee the funding of buying such supplies immediately. Plus it would be a huge difference maker in the aspect of which company am I building. The 95% that fail in the first year, or the 5% that make it?
MOST small businesses that fail do so because of either a) going into too much debt or [B]b) growing too fast[/B].

Personally, I’d suggest that you politely pass on this job for now but tell them that you’d love to bid on it next year when you have employees and some wfp experience under your belt.

Focus on building commercial routes, network, and get some houses. The commercial will build you a solid platform from which to grow. The houses are a perfect opportunity to practice wfp because if it doesn’t come out right, ladder up and fix it. The homeowner will just think you’re using the latest technology and that you’re super picky and they’ll be impressed even if you don’t know what you’re doing wfp-wise.

If you take the job now and suck it, the building will never call you back out. If you kill it next year the contract will be yours forever.

Personally, I’d rather have ten $20 commercial jobs (preferably $40, but whatever when you’re getting started) than one $200 job because if one of the $20 cancels, you’ve still got 180 in your pocket. If the 200 cancels, you’re out a chunk of change.

[MENTION=3111]DaveYogi[/MENTION] I’m insured for three stories or less. and the building is only two stories technically, each level is just higher than the norm.
[MENTION=12729]JaredAI[/MENTION] thanks for answering the questions, my area has a tsd level of 427. so it’s pretty high as well, but not as high as your area is! I get what you are saying about growing too fast, which is a real concern for all businesses. And I do agree with you that being diverse is a great way to build a solid foundation for a business. Both of you have definitely given me some things to think about. thank you so much!

Each story is about 10 feet or so. A normal 2 story building puts the windows at about 10-15 feet. I wouldn’t think any second story would be higher than 25-30 feet.

Where does the 70ft come from? Do they have a tower?

[MENTION=12729]JaredAI[/MENTION] ohhhhhhhhhhhhh gosh, you are absolutely right lol. This is why I love the window cleaning industry, everyone is helpful. There’s literally no excuse for my height guesstimate other than I am a terrible “guesstimater” I retract that statement. This is one of those embarrassing moments where your hand just immediately hides your face, I think you’re right with the 25-30 feet. I had looked in the background of one picture multiple times and could not find anything in the picture to compare the size of the building too. And of course, after I already post this, there is an American flag pole right in front of the building near the same height of the building. wow I feel dumb, that’s embarrassing… oh well, although I just completely displayed the newb in me, I got a little less newb like because I will make sure to never have that bad of a guesstimate again :stuck_out_tongue: please don’t judge guys, im trying lol

Yeah, you have to practice your guestimating skills early and often. For future reference, a standard commercial door is about 7’ or so. Use that as a ruler: 7’ - 14’ - 21’ etc. Once you get to the second story, just add 10’ for each level above that.

Other people drop some money on a laser range finder.

A few others also use trigonometry. If you know your height, you can measure the length of your shadow and then it’s simply

arctan(yourheight / yourshadow) = angle.

Then measure the length of the buildings shadow, use the angle you found, then buildingheight = buildingshadow * tan(angle). Then voila, you’ve got the height of the building.

If your calculator doesn’t have the arctan function, you might have sine and cosine so just use those instead.

[MENTION=12729]JaredAI[/MENTION] I seriously remember doing a problem in class exactly like that except measuring a flag pole, and thinking to myself “I am never going to use this in my life.” Hahaha

A ship is safe in harbor, but that’s not what ships are for

Update- as enticing as the job was, after analyzing the number side I decided it was too much, and too fast. I declined the job and was told id be kept in mind for future jobs. I’d consider that a success. Thanks for the help tho everyone

A ship is safe in harbor, but that’s not what ships are for

Yup, at least this way you appear professional and wise. When you’re ready, you’ll nail it. If you sucked the job, then you’d appear as an amateur and wouldn’t get a second shot.