Scratched Glass at a Homebuilder Sales Office

For the last two days I have been cleaning a huge two floor sales office for a homebuilder in the Toronto area.

They are very nice, kind and reasonable people. I have cleaned their office partition glass, the inside exterior glass, and today I cleaned the door.

After I cleaned the boardroom many scratches were found on side of the panel of partition glass in the boardroom. The coowner discovered that and she asked me if I did anything to cause it and I said no. Thinking it was an isolated incident I continued cleaning the glass. (Stupid me). I cleaned all the partition glass for the offices on the second floor and all the inside exterior glass on that floor as well. After that, I went downstairs and cleaned the glass around the door. After I cleaned the outside of the door removing stickers with a new ettore razonr (not that that matters), I discovered many long scratches. The scratches were all on the outside of the door. The other door which I hadn’t yet cleaned had no scratches.

I decided to tell the coowner, I quickly educated her about fabricating debris (I don’t know a lot about it, since before this I only did construction clean occasionally and was negligent in reading a lot about it. I did learn some stuff on World with detached interest.) I explained that when glass is created some glass makers don’t clean their rollers properly and debris gets on the glass, and then when we clean it, the razor dislodges the debris and drags it across the glass causing it to scratch. I was clear that it’s not the razor at fault which is an industry standard for window cleaners, and janitors and other professions, and many glass is cleaned with razors without incident. I realize after checking out Dan’s site that my explanation isn’t completely correct. But I told her what I know.

Of course, I erred in not educating the customer first before commencing work, and not getting a waiver signed. This was a job I subcontracting from a small janitorial company, who the owner is a very good, reasonable, and good guy who backs you up.

We together looked at all the other glass I cleaned and found many scratches. Again I should have looked closer when cleaning and stopped after the first scratched glass.

Interestingly the glass came from at least 4 different manufacturerers, so It looks like my story is not plausible from the viewpoint of the customer based on the law of probability. Of course, it may be possible that many glass manufacturers are negligent, or perhaps they manufacture glass under different names.

She was very calm, and wasn’t combative, she just wants a solution to the problem.

She called another guy, perhaps another coowner, or her brother, I forgot. And he too was calm and listened to my explanation. He too found it unplausible that so many different manufacturers could make bad glass.

They are going to call a glass bufferer who they think might get the scratches out. Some are quite deep though. I wonder though, if that might cause the glass to get more scratched.

They are willing to ignore most of the scratched glass, and just want the boardroom partition glass replaced and the door glass replaced.

Oddly, they wanted me to clean the rest of the windows without a razor because they were under time constraints because they want to install blinds and tint on the first floor exterior glass.

I said that I was able to do that, but would rather not since they would not be happy with the results. I explained that there is no chemical to repalce scraping, and if there was it would be cost prohibitive because it would take a long time to clean. If I tried to clean the glass without a razor they would be unhappy, because the silicone, and other debris would stay on the glass.

She finally said to leave it a few days.

I encouraged her to keep in touch with me. I felt like leaving but thought better. I want to work through the problem with her. I didn’t admit responsibility and highlighted my diligence in stopping work at once and showing her the problem.

She is going to speak to the glass people but thinks that they will blame the window cleaner. She thinks perhaps that my insurance will pay for the replacement of the glass. I hope my insurance company doesn’t deny me. BTW I’m with Royal and Sun Alliance.

These people are very good, and don’t seem out for blood, they just want to fix the problem, they are also very stressed and anxious from other problems.

The janitorial company owner, backed me up to the coowner. And he said that I was a good guy, professional and meticulous and the last construction job had not one scratch.

The janitor owner and I will work to educate clients from now on, and implement scratch waivers.

I’m going to read more on http://stoppedscratchedglass.com and I will probably buy his videos and implement his strategies. As well I will provide an information package to new clients and explain as best as I can.

I did apologize about the situation and I did empathize with the coowner and said if I was in her shoes I would be upset, stressed, and anxious. I’m trying to be helpful, compassionate and trying to educate the customer as best I can.

Thanks for listening. Any suggestions would be helpful. If you have any private info, PM me or email me at [email protected]

That’s to bad Mike. Yet another wcer who has been bit by the FD dog!
There is a great FD page on this site. It has a link to Dan’s site as well as videos and more links and a sample waiver.
The reason you had problems w/ glass from more than one company is because most of them are doing a bad job when it comes to tempering. There are only 2 to my knowledge that do a good job and even then I still get the waiver signed.

Isnt the iwca position on F.B the same as GANA and the glass Manufactures?

I believe that i heard that the IWCA changed there position on Scratched glass

What’s their position?
LinO

http://www.windowcleaner.com-a.googlepages.com/fabricatingdebris

my position is a waiver, but they will not 100% stand up in court.

So, whenever i see a piece of glass that needs a razor, i go and grab the customer and ask them what they want to do, either scrape or not to scrape.
(client is educated and advised of F.B)

btw, the waiver is already signed

Mike,
You have to stick to your guns on the FD issue. Dont back down. Do not admit fault in the least. Show them the Links above, print out info from Dans site. If you show any weakness on the issue, you’ll get stuck with it (or your insurance company will). I have been in this very same situation a few times and I have always came out on top. You have to explain to them that this is a huge issue being talked about amongst window cleaners and manufacturers for years. Dont back down buddy, they will eat you alive. Trust me.

Not really. The past president of the IWCA made some unilateral statements that caused a stir for a while and made many think the IWCA was changing or had changed their stand. The official stand (FD is a defect and get the waiver signed) is the same. At least for now.

thanks Tony,

If they stand by this and other window cleaners do, why is it necessary to get a waiver signed?

Why is this battle going on if scientests have proven that there is F.B on/in the glass.

why doesnt the IWCA,AUWC,MCWOA and others take them to court?

It sounds like we/windows cleaners have all the proof in the world to finally shut down these bad practices of the Fabricators…

Proof we have Doug, but the deep pockets to do the long, drawn out court battles to settle the issue is a different thing. The combined resources of all the wcing associations would not be enough (even if they wanted to pool their resources) to get anywhere near settled.

Why not???

Why even fight with them then if the window cleaners or associations are not going to do anything about it?

How many window cleaners are out here in the USA? All you need to do is ask each window cleaner for $20.00, that would more than cover the cost of legal fees.

If a window cleaner gets sued for scratching glass shouldnt we just point our fingers at the fabricators, since it is proven that F.B scratches glass, not razors or squeegee rubbers???

It would take millions of dollars to put this issue to rest legally. Not to mention that most wcers aren’t even aware of the problem. Some wcers don’t care about a potential problem for their competition until it bites them. Not to mention the wcers that would prefer to use methods that don’t utilize scrapers so they don’t have to address the issue also slows the process.
Of course w/ a signed waiver and all the documentation out there (not to mention more and more cases won or settled in favor of the wcer) we are gaining headway. The education of homeowners and especially builders will help bring a new facet to the fight.

What do you think I should do next? I’m offering the work I dd so far at no charge since the customer was not satisfied, and I didn’t finish cleaning all the windows.

Now I’m thinking that I should refuse to have my insurance cover it because it might shoot my rates up, or they may deny me. And by getting insurance involved it’s seems to say that I’m claiming responsibility.

Also they may want the rest of their windows cleaned. I can’t clean it well without a razor, and they may not feel they can clean their windows well, and the janitor knows he can’t clean windows well. And if a new window cleaner is hired and knows about the razor situation he may just walk.

How would I go about resolving the situation?

My insurance co.(nationwide) will not cover me for scratches caused by FD and I was told there is no writer to be taken out for it. Makes you wonder how many wcrs are loosing their cases if the ins. companys are more familiar w/ fd than many wcrs. :confused:

I think there are less than 20,000 Window Cleaners in the united states… That would be $400,000 – Not enough to fight Gana … They are huge.

Mike,
I would stick to your guns. Dont show weakness. Show that you are positive that you know what you are talking about. print some pages out and show them physically about the FD. Show them what it sounds like(scratching FD) And that if it was you…That you would of stopped immediately and contacted you about this. Good luck, let us know how it turns out

where did you get the 20,000 number?

Well it looks like the window cleaners are screwed then…

Get a waiver signed before any further work.
Your insurance will, in all likelihood not accept this claim because they know it’s a defect and they don’t cover preexisting conditions like defects.
There is really no way to resolve the situation. You find yourself in a place where their defective product will have to be replaced or they will have to live w/ it as is. You said earlier they are going to have some of the windows tinted, yes? If so, are they aware that tinters will scrape every square inch of the glass before applying their product? As for having the scratches buffed out, if FD is present that will only cause more scratches. To get all the FD off the glass (and I’m not sure they could) it would, most probably, distort the optical clarity of the glass.
If they do decide to take you to court talk to Dan Fields. He can help!

It just means we have a long road ahead in the fight. To win we need passionate, educated wcers who are willing to help new guys become aware before they get bit. It’s time to come together as an industry and help build the professional image of wcers by being willing to mentor and support each other, not just on forums, but locally.