I recently purchased Oil-Flo for just this reason. If there is a lot of paint or stucco debris, instead of a whole bunch of scraping I will use Oil-Flo.
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Did you work alone on this job? You keep saying we . After a window or two did you or your employees notice any sctaches? Sometimes itās hard to notice them until the window is clean. I do a lot of new ccu and there are jobs I know that have never had a window cleaner there, the home hasnāt even had a family in it yet and we find scratches on windows that look like they have had a razor on them. It could be the installer. Itās a long shot if itās every single window but I just had something similar. I spoke with the builder and sure enough she told me that from time to time they will receive some scratched glass. I document all of it and let her know before we start any work. If you noticed that you scratched any glass why did you keep going ?
Just trying to help understand the seemingly deep doo you found.
āā¦she knows it is from us, who else could it be from? we are the only company who cleans the windows) ā¦ā ----> that you know of?
Unless you saw that there were no scratches before scraping then you have no idea how they got there. Scratches usually make an eerily scratching sound from fabricating debris when you blade the glass. Did you hear and feel that and keep going on all of the windows?
"I know it is fab debris though."
Did you know of this before or during scraping of the glass? Or afterwards you deducted so?
Just a thought - - how much investment and how many man hours would it take to get the required scratch removal gear and put it to use on this property? If its $3k and a weeks hard labour then you may be able to make it all right in a relatively short time frame without risking your companies reputation AND add a valuable add-on service to your business at the same timeā¦
The equipment cost would be an investment and should actually earn you money in the long run, so all this would really cost you is your time & sweat if you handle it right.
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Last year 2 major bodies the IWCA and GANA both released that the use of a razor on tempered glass was not an approved method of cleaningā¦
Window cleaners need to get it thru their thick heads that glass manufactures are not going to change their methods, FD will never go away why would they remove it its not visible to the naked eye only under extreme magnification,. do glass manufacturers care you scratch their glass, they prob like it coz they can sell more glass.
Every few days there is a post about scratch waivers, for me if there is a possibility that a razor will scratch the glass I will NOT USE ONE!!!
Donāt use one and say oh its the manufacturers fault its not gonna work they are not answerable to you, they are not required to make a product u can clean with a razor, its the mindset of window cleaners who they believes they are above the the rest coz they have been using scrapers for X amount of years and all they need is a waiver and go to town destroying the glass and say not my fault.
The priority for any cleaner is to clean a surface without damaging it.
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Hereās my take on Marvin: they have horrible quality control issues. And theyāre terribly overpriced for the quality of product they deliver. The fact that they had to replace some of the windows already due to leaking or some other nonsense, should indicate to the homeowner that they didnāt get what they paid for.
Unfortunately, itās in our nature as imperfect humans to become stubbornly blind to basic facts when we overpay for something. We donāt want to face the reality that we were duped and wasted money. I think this is one reason why Marvin manages to stay in business.
/rant
Now as far as the damage that was done: I find it highly unlikely that every window in the home was tempered. Itās standard practice to only install tempered glass where it is required by building codes, such as doors and entryways, bathrooms, and below a certain height on the wall (where someone might be able to put their foot through it).
Iāve done quite a few CCUās on Marvin windows, and I blade everything that isnāt tempered. So far Iāve found that the only windows that are tempered are in the areas I mentioned above. Iām still cautious, and always get a signed waiver, but I havenāt found a home yet where I couldnāt use a blade on any of the windows.
**Itās quite possible that the scratches were put there by a painter. If they were careless with the sander, that would explain why there are scratches on every pane, even the ones that arenāt tempered. **
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Like anything, weād need to see it. Just too many variables to even ballpark.
We recently quoted a repair job, residential CCU gone wrong. Replacement cost was $94,500, our quote for repair was $28,000. Fair amount of scaffolding was required though.
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Yes it was us, as far as I am aware we are the only window cleaners that have been to this houseā¦
ā¦My point is that most likely you are not the firstā¦Someone else did the construction cleaning and more than likely used razorsā¦ If it is fabricating debris then they scratched them first and you added to itā¦It doesnāt change anything as far as your liability because you did at least add to the damage. Maybe even to the point of making it noticable. I have done houses that had really dirty windows and it wasnāt until they were cleaned that the scratches could be seen.
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Sorry for being away, I just got home and back on the computer.
I filed a claim with my insurance provider (JDW) and we will see where that goes. I hear many good things about them and I am hoping we can make this process as smooth as possible. (although I feel horrible for having to submit the claim) I just feel quite dumb about all of it. Like I have said, Iām learning and learning the hard way.
Basically, I was an idiot and definitely made mistakes that I now have to learn from. Yes, when we initially noticed the scratches it was 3 years ago or so when we first did the job, it was my biggest job at the time and I thought you had to use razors to clean every window. so thats what we did. At the time I did not know anything about Fab Debris. We almost completely stopped using razors since then on that house (mainly because we cleaned them fairly often) I was just stupid and should have handled things better at that time. It was brought to the customers attention about the scratches by her cleaning lady and thats when the owner noticed everything. (you canāt see them super well and only at different times of the day do they show up real well) I believe me and my guys have used razors once or twice since then to remove stubborn spots without realizing how bad the scratches were becoming.
The owner is very nice, has always liked me and my company and being fairly easy to deal with but she definitely is very upset about the windows and wants the problem fixed.
yes we will be looking into Glass Renu as a very possible option. Besides, the customer doesnāt want to go into the whole process of tearing out windows and putting new ones back in anyway. (you have to repaint and re-instal trim work etc)
Sorry that was long, I do appreciate the feed back. I will keep you guys updated on what happens with the claim, customer etc. Thanks again and if anyone has been in this messy of a situation I would love to chat and see what my other options (if any) are. Iāll do whatever I can to make this right as I donāt want to ruin any relationships (personal and business) as well as my companies reputation.
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http://windowcleaner.com/users/Steve076
Steve076, yes I agree with what you are saying. There is a lot of truth to that.
Like you said
āThe priority for any cleaner is to clean a surface without damaging itā
Whatāya mean thatās not fixed?
Steve, I loved so much about your post. Well said. Waiver or no waiver, I have gotten away from using razors most of the time. Similar to you @Ethan1712, I used to feel that razors were the main way. But over the years, Iāve found better (safer) ways to do things, and I sometimes cringe thinking about how much glass I scraped 4 or 5 years ago.
I have waivers with some of my biggest commercial clients, but Iāve still never taken a razor out of the truck at their properties. Itās not worth it to me. And most homeowners feel the same way. FD isnāt going away; in fact itāll probably get worse. Might as well adapt.
Unless itās houses in our historic neighborhoods with 100 year old glass. Then people practically beg me to scrape them 
In all seriousness, @Ethan1712, my heart goes out to you, and I hope for the best. Thank you for sharing your experience. This is a real learning experience for all of us. Taking it on the chin like this and trying to keep your integrity is a very honorable thing to do.
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Not trying to be negative but why in the world would you keep scrapping ? Thatās my question. Even fresh out the gate I knew when I was scraping a window if I had scratched it. So why would you continue to scrape each window ā¦and over a period of time of serving it you kept doing it ?
Agreed. When we started up and practically every job was a first time clean, I scraped. But I canāt see any need to scrape if the Windows have been cleaned semi-regularly. Maybe spot scraping?
IDK, like I said, I donāt even really scrape at all anymore, even first time cleans. There just isnāt really a need to.
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I spot scrape certain windows after wetting it well unless the customer is specifically asking for every spec to be cleaned off. Then we have a discussion about scratched glass and a waiver. Like I previously mentioned, I have started to use Titan Oil-Flo for paint on windows then clean them up right away with soap and water. Saves having to take a blade to large areas of glass and the issue of scratches. Also, if I notice scratches on glass I stop and alert the homeowner of pre-existing scratches.
Does the oil-flo work for concrete splatters on glass?
Are there any windows that you can show fabricating debris? A razor across an (use an already damaged window) window will make that grinding sound we hate to hear.
