Scratched Windows

Hey Guys ! I need some help. I have been in the business for 16 years, cleaned literally thousands of windows ( Res. & Com ). We cleaned windows for a customer using regular industry standards. Customer called, said windows were scratched. Well, they are. Two sets each with a Picture & two sliders on each side have scratches all over the outside. This has never happened. My Employees and I use triumph scrappers, always with soap and water. The Razors did not have the edges broken off creating a jagged edge.

Has anyone seen a glass that is “Soft” or not has hard/durable as the standard. These are pella windows (thermapane). The glass part was made by Old Castle.

Trying to decide how to proceed.Any feedback would be very appreciated.

Jeff from Ohio

Might want to start reading up here, - Fabricating Debris

There is no such thing as soft glass. If all affected panes are heat-treated (tempered, for example – the sliders are), then fabricating debris is the likely suspect, dislodged and moved across the glass by the scraper.

Old Castle more than likely supplied defective glass to your customer (or their builder.)

Contact Dan Fields:
Stop Scratched Glass - Home
Fields Construction Services, Inc
5715 South Front Road Building B-1
Livermore, CA 94550
Phone: 925-294-8183 ext. 201
Fax: 925-294-8157

Educate yourself on fabricating debris (there is a subforum and a recent thread) prior to discussing details – beyond your inspection of the glass – with the customer.

Old Castle is the worst of the temperers out there. They have some of the worst fabricating debris problems I have ever seen. Seth and Larry gave you good links to start with and you should also get a waiver made up for your company as soon as possible.
The most important thing right now is to get educated on FD before going any further w/ this customer.

This a joke right?

I hate to tell you this but Old castle are the worst in my opinion. I have never seen a piece that they have put out that does not have fab debris. If you don’t have a waiver, get one. There is one on Dans site and many others around here.

Yep – Agree with both Larry and Seth

Check the page Seth most likely looking at Fabricating debris. - Fabricating Debris

Sorry to hear your story Jeff. You’ll want to remember Pella and Old Castle in the future.

Is Pella starting to, or have they in the past used all Old castle? In my area we have not seen any old castle in Pella’s yet. at least none of them have the Old castle stamp on them. With the price tag on the Pella’s I can’t believe they would use such crap glass.

Back in the 80’s when I was doing construction I toured the Pella plant and they did alot of their own tempering. I think w/ the increased demand they have outsourced it.

Around here, Pella=CRAP!

Wow. Old castle, of all places to use they chose old castle? WOW! I have to say I like Hurd and Anderson so much more and more everyday. even Pozzi seems to be stepping it up. I know most of the builders here are moving away from Pella just due to the price and quality.

I have been told that Pella uses Cardinal glass. Same for Andersen. I have not seen FD on basic doublehungs or casements from Pella or Andersen (Maybe im just lucky). I have seen FD in large picture window & foyer entry glass by Pella. I have seen a ton of FD on Kolbe & Kolbe glass.

As for the issue, try to stand your ground on the defective windows and the FD that is the reason for scratching it up. If you show weakness in any way. they will most likely eat you for lunch.

+1, kolbe and Kolbe a close second
I believe Anderson make their own glass, never had a problem with them

I found FD on 2 new Anderson sliders in the last month. Be careful guys don’t be fooled by a good name.

I can remember article about New Castle in particular about field debris.

Wonder if hes talking to Dan right now about it. I would sure like to hear what he says happened.

I hate to sound like a jerk or disrespectful and insensitive about what happened but I gotta say it-
16 years and has never heard about this issue? This is really something us newbies can learn from. 16 years! Go’s to show that one really needs to stay up on what is going on in the industry.

Jeff, join the crowd of wc’er nitemare !!! Do talk to the people on this subject !! If if if if you had a waiver you would be ok !! But since you don’t know how to do windows !! And your ins. Is going to pay for new windows !!!not not and not !! Am i alittle off basicy here !! Ya !! They cust wants new windows !! Right !! They can be repaired !! But they don’t want that !! U got scamed !!! I know u and i see scratched winows every day !! But if the cust thinks they can get new ones !! Why not !! It cost me 2,000 dollars for lawyer fee but didnt pay for windows !!! I had to put a arm behind the lady lawyer and have her use her dl on a window in the office to show she had fb !! She was shocked !! I asked her if she wanted the window cleaned and the fb left there??? She wanted to have it removed !! Wow !! I really don’t know how to clean windos yet !! After 26 years !!yes i get a waiver or i don’t do the window !! Yes i lose work but i haven’t paid for a window either !! I’m on to the scam !! Drop me a e-m or call 605-280-8272 if you need to talk !! Stan

So Far, Thank you all for feedback. One poster responded asking " This Is A Joke Right ? ". Not sure what that was about. Maybe just trying to be funny.

Some responded and were surprised to hear they were Old Castle. I am sure they were Old Castle in the pellas. I even did some investigative work visiting my local Lowes, since that is where they were purchased, and even a few of their older displays has Old Castle. The Lowes employee called Pella today and they admitted they used that company (Old Castle), but had discontinued a few years back.

It sounds like a relatively common documented fact that this company has a reputation for this.

Again, Thank You !