So, what do you think?

[anon82274079]

A good friend of mine also a local pressure washer. Has a completely different mind set . Extremely high prices extremely high minimum. He would always get a chuckle watching me work 7 days a week doing sometimes 8 or ten jobs a day spread through 4 counties. Sometimes those 8 or 10 jobs would all be small stuff adding up to less than 1k. He would sit there and glote over his one or two jobs that week that made more. His $500 house wash is no different than my $150 housewash. His $1800 roof cleaning is no different than my $450 one. Month after month he would complain about not being busy enough while I’m still working 6 or 7 days a week. He held true to his prices and his minimum even after repeat customers asked if he could get closer to there other quotes .
He sold his truck last month and I bought his Buisness on a commission base.
His s thoughts were I have a pressure washing’s Buisness and it needs to make X per hour. Every time I start the truck. I would explain to him I’m in the customer service Buisness keeping them happy is my top priority not profit. That comes anyway

This is a post in a discussion from another forum. I find this post pretty interesting and worth discussion, Lots of food for thought on both sides of the road. On one hand you have a guy charging low prices, working 6-7 days a week, making low pay. The other side you have a guy charging premium prices, working FAR less, likely making about the same or less. I know we all have a “model” for our business, but my personal thoughts are that being the low price guy doesn’t work. You might better work for someone else for a modest paycheck, then to invest all the money into a business, take all the risks, ride the highs and lows, and all that is involved, then to be in business.

I’m sure there are lots of guys in business, or new to business, with the SAME attitude that my $100 window cleaning is the SAME as their $400 window cleaning. But it really isn’t. It would seem to me, the more expensive cleaner was not showing his value well enough, but more concerning to me is the guy who is cheap, thinking HIS value is pretty much the same. Maybe their values were the same, but I honestly doubt that.

In my mind, this actually contributes to the problem we have in the service industry with pricing. One big problem is inflation and the buying power of the dollar. Other things are constantly inflating in price. From our supplies, tools, insurance expenses, to our groceries, utility costs and everything else. $100 dollars doesn’t buy much today, compared to what it did 10-20-50 years ago. You don’t call out your HVAC guy and have him change your furnace filter for free, or even 10 bucks. The plumber doesn’t change your bad washer in your leaky faucet for free, making a special trip to do it at no charge. I believe in building your value while you are there, but if I am going back to take are of “little things” I still have expenses and it is taking me away from things that make me money.

[Matthew]

My top priority is profit, no question about it. What allows me to make profit is great customer service from first call to the end of the job and in between jobs. It is possible to charge too much and put yourself out of business even if customer service is great, so I move slow towards that upper limit. Even though I am already priced higher than most in my market, there is still some more room to go. As for value, like beauty it is in the eye of the beholder (customer). To some customers the only value is how cheaply they can get it for, that’s not the customer I want, so I rarely haggle over price. If I can’t get what I want, I move on. As for “the problem we have in the service industry with pricing”, I don’t see any problem. Everyone charges what they need to make a profit with. Some charge really high, others don’t. I think it’s usually those that don’t charge enough who go out of business, or work themselves into a stupor. Your friend it seems was just stubborn and couldn’t read the signs of why he wasn’t getting business.

[anon82274079]

@Matthew

As for “the problem we have in the service industry with pricing”, I don’t see any problem. Everyone charges what they need to make a profit with. Some charge really high, others don’t. I think it’s usually those that don’t charge enough who go out of business, or work themselves into a stupor. Your friend it seems was just stubborn and couldn’t read the signs of why he wasn’t getting business.

I agreed with you right up to the point you said there wasn’t a problem. There is. Many of them, and maybe it isn’t affecting you YET, that doesn’t mean it won’t.
This wasn’t my story or my friend. It was a post from elsewhere that started off asking about current minimum pricing.
I’ve personally, already run into issues with new people not knowing what they are doing, damaging the power wash industry. My insurer would not insure me for power washing. They dropped insuring power washers because of the claims. Take a look over at youtube. Plenty of people “advising” what box store crap to buy and how to price cheap and get work.
There has been plenty of people come here and tell us they don’t have insurance, and basically are running their business for beer money.

Yes, I KNOW that we don’t want the el cheapo clients. But the problems is that these wanna be business owners crop up everywhere, and when one goes out one or two more crop up. This in turn degrades a market because everyone starts thinking window cleaning or house washing should be priced at beer money. Amazon, Ebay, ect. anyone? People already have the mindset that cheap is what matters. Everyone, including ourselves, shop based on price without really thinking about quality differences.

Yes, I know we need to build our value. But the reality is, when your market gets flooded with cheap labor, you are not going to be making a living without scaling back your prices. We have already come to the point that people shop based on price, and everyone wants it NOW.

I guess my point is this:
I know we all started as the “new competition” at some point. But myself, I never came into it trying to be the “cheap” guy and doing it with box store crap equipment. The bad/misinformation isn’t doing our industries any good. Those that refuse to acknowledge the problem, that’s fine. I’m in this for the long haul, and you can see many new faces all the time. I get the feeling that most people coming into this, really are only after the fast money. Look at how few people, actually participate on this board, that have been here for 5+ years. I don’t do social media, but I’d bet it’s not any different there.

One thing I AM sure of, is EVERYONE here would be pretty upset if someone came in taking your clients at 25-50 % of your price. When it was actually cutting into your wallets, it’s pretty hard to ignore. I didn’t start a business to work 10-12 hour days, 7 days a week to end up with a paycheck I could make working for someone else.

[Infinity]

There’s some really good replies already on that thread. I think it’s only fair to post the link here, as there will likely be a lot of sentiments repeated otherwise.

Current service minimum

I think it should be noted, that the guy who posted that comment has a killer rig. He’s knocking out jobs quickly and effectively. He’s not some Chuck in a truck with a HomeDepot machine. I don’t agree with working 6 or 7 days a week, but I have a feeling he’s just a workaholic, and probably makes a better salary in 3 days than I make in 4.5.

There’s definitely a happy medium. As I noted in my post over there, the guys that are suffering from poor closing rates or an empty schedule are making other mistakes in their business besides pricing.

[GenaroGuzman]

With that nice truck , I’m sure his prices will go up .

[Infinity]

I certainly hope he takes this opportunity to raise his rates. With such a disparity between his prices and the guy he bought out, he could bump them up 30-50% and still seem like a killer deal compared to what they had been paying.

[anon82274079]

I say what he is doing is akin to company A charging 10 bucks a window and doing fewer jobs, and company B doing it for 2.50 a window.

Company B might have mad skills and doing 8 houses a day, but who is really winning? No one but the ones paying the bill.

I have no doubt he’s probably a workaholic, but someday he won’t be able to be. And what happens when inflation of his costs, make the 150 house wash a break even? I can’t see how it isn’t now.

The big problem is in the bigger picture of it all. With the inflation of the prices of all other goods and services we pay for all the time, doing something like he is at such a low cost, sets a “standard” price. He is obviously willing to service anyone who calls, and do anything his customers want. He has no problem giving away his services, so people will expect that.

I just cant understand how he himself can’t see how that is detrimental to the industry, let alone everyone else in business.

[Infinity]

^^^ all great points. I am sure there are a ton of variables, as well as some psychology involved with why some people choose to operate their businesses like that. I’m not sure if he’s just an owner operator, or has employees, but it’s obvious he’s working on high volume to make a living.

I detected some fear-based reasoning beneath a couple of his posts. Essentially (and this is my armchair analysis), he’s afraid that business will completely dry up if he raises his prices substantially. He sees an example or two of other guys who have unsustainable businesses, and confirmation bias kicks in, telling him that it is mainly their high pricing that is causing them trouble.

There also seems to be a strong aversion to marketing. I don’t do much of it myself, but I recognize the importance of it if you are trying to establish a business with somewhat higher rates than the $99 fly-by-night operations.

Florida is a tough market, for sure. But somewhere between his $150 and his friend’s $450 housewash, I believe there is a happy medium for that market. $200-$300 seems fairly attainable and sustainable for a semi-detailed 1-1.5 hour house wash. But it would require a complete paradigm shift for him to get there.

As an aside, I think there is a danger in readers taking some individuals’ posts at face value. InnocentBystander has an awesome company, and I have a lot of respect for what he has built. But a lot of the things that have worked for him and he espouses regularly, simply will not work for 80% of our businesses. His comments should always be taken in the context of his target market (condo associations and large housing developments). He makes a killing at $150-$200 housewashes; one, after another, after another. His guys are not driving all over the region all day doing one here, another there, etc. His crew is in one place for several days to a week at a time.

[anon82274079]

I agree with what you are saying Alex. Whole heartedly.

I think one big draw back of the invention of the internet and the free flow of information, is that people are not always completely honest. Your marketing example is one prime example. Marketing IS important to EVERY business. It just depends on where you live and the people there, as to what channels of marketing are effective.

Certainly one huge drawback I see are the YouTube personalities that try to get every broke dic* to get into business on the cheap and sometimes on the sly. I can understand some people’s desperation for income, but really where we are now as a country, who can’t find a job at this point? I think it’s great that someone would want to be in business for themselves and grow something. I find it foolish and damaging though, when people want to go about it the wrong way. It doesn’t just hurt THEM.

When I started window cleaning here another guy had just gotten out. Did windows for quite some time and never charged enough. When he went out, he never sold his business. Even he knew it was pretty much without value. Worked for a lot of years for a lot of nothing. Hope social security was enough for him, because that’s all he has. I had to build the value to sell to his old clients, and that was no easy task. Now if there was much competition in my market, I probably never would have been able to, if all the meat heads had driven down the value of our work…

[Infinity]

The Youtubers are doing it for likes and subscriptions. They know what people want to hear. Unfortunately, most people are not mature enough to realize that what they want, and what’s actually going to benefit them long term, are not the same. They are usually on opposite ends of the spectrum.

(Clears throat, puts away soapbox)

It’s funny you mention that guy who just retired. Similar thing happened in my market a year or two ago. As far as I know, the guy made no attempt to sell his biz; just outright retired (whether he had savings or not, I have no idea). I’ve been able to convert a few of his old customers, who knew/realized they were getting a heck of a deal that wouldn’t last beyond his retirement.

And another guy who, from what I can tell, is kind of letting his business disintegrate as he is winding down and focusing on another revenue stream (a convenience store he opened earlier this year). He’s been pushing customers off further and further until they get frustrated and end up calling me. I like the guy, but I think he realizes no one would buy his customer list. So he does a little here and a little there, and lets the rest go to attrition.

[Wagonhound]

When you have an established customer base in a luxury service business like window cleaning, you have the ability to charge a premium for your service. Several years ago I had a conversation with a customer that specifically said people would pay my price because it was me who they wanted in their house and not somebody else. There are always people who are willing to work for less, and many times that means they’re going to work more hours and focus on the lower end of the market. When working in high end residential, price is one of the least determining factors of retaining current customers and building new ones. I probably close on 95% of my referrals (at a higher hourly rate) from other customers and maybe only 50% that find me through my website or other means of advertising.

A few weeks ago one of my long time customers only wanted to have the outsides of her Pella windows cleaned, it’s normally a $600 job in/out. When I got there, she decided she wanted everything cleaned but said she just couldn’t afford it and wanted to know if I’d do it for $400 or $450. It was kind of an awkward situation, I was already there and had other jobs on my schedule that I had to push back. Out of the goodness of my heart I said yes to $450, but regretted every minute of the job. Little things like this always get me thinking, ‘Am I charging too much?’ Here I am 2 weeks later trying to cram every last job in before the weather turn and asking myself why did I take that job when I have these good paying customers and others I haven’t had time to call on.

[anon82274079]

@Wagonhound

When I got there, she decided she wanted everything cleaned but said she just couldn’t afford it and wanted to know if I’d do it for $400 or $450. It was kind of an awkward situation, I was already there and had other jobs on my schedule that I had to push back. Out of the goodness of my heart I said yes to $450, but regretted every minute of the job.

IMO, if she could afford 450, she could have afforded the 600. She was testing the waters seeing if she could get a “deal”. Now that she got it, she is probably going to expect or at least try to get that deal again.

If you are an employee, and your employer says “Listen, it’s been tough this month. I can only pay you 12 bucks an hour instead of the 20 you normally make. AND I am going to need you to pay double your premium for your benefits too. It’s just for a few months”, how would you, or others, react? Especially if you knew there are other jobs willing to pay you that 20 bucks and treat you more fair for your benefits?

You know what your price is, and you established it. You know you can get it and you aren’t desperate for work.

That’s not me looking down my nose at you, or trying to be a know it all. I absolutely HATE when someone tries to debate my prices. You don’t do it with other service providers. You don’t do it at the grocery store. I don’t understand the mindset of some people in this industry. We should know our costs, and what kind of money we want/need to make in profits. I don’t understand why some people play “lets make a deal” or that other guy over there is WAY too expensive. And no, I’m not talking about you, it’s just that some people operate their business like that every day.

[Wagonhound]

@anon82274079

You know what your price is, and you established it. You know you can get it and you aren’t desperate for work.

Yes, a bad business decision on my part and I made it my problem that she did not want to pay my price. Unfortunately she has been a good customer, but she will be lost through attrition next year. I hate to be judgmental, but If you’re driving around a $90K Escalade, $85K F250 Platinum, and just returned from 2 weeks in the Baltics, you can definitely afford another $150. They’ve even given me tips in the past so it doesn’t really add up. They are semi-retired and I know they have done well for themselves. Every once in a while I get caught in the cross hairs.

[karlosdaze]

Perhaps the bronze, silver, gold packages could help some on this point? Then you could keep your pricing within your terms & not do work for free. Most prospects see printed matter as law.

[thorSG1]

@anon82274079

You don’t call out your HVAC guy and have him change your furnace filter for free, or even 10 bucks. The plumber doesn’t change your bad washer in your leaky faucet for free, making a special trip to do it at no charge. I believe in building your value while you are there,

Thats a point that I still haven’t found a way to put this in the customer’s head without being rude.
I care, but not more than I care about doing stuff for free when I could be at home or on another job.

What you mentioned about building value tho, if the same ones continue to ask (and mine do, those certain few) then what else can you do to build value other than not doing it for free?

I have a couple property managers that try to get away with extras that would be retarded to give for free and they keep trying every single time. “while your there can you get rid of the spider webs THAT ARE AROUND THE ENTIRE HALF A BLOCK LONG 3 STORY BUILDING?”
“they should pay you for those jokes” or something equally stupid is usually my reply after the 5th time she’s asked…

So how to build value in this aspect?

[HBM]

I turned down an offer to do some handyman work from a really good repeat client. I told him that I want to stick to my specialties.

What I didn’t tell him was that I don’t want low priced handyman jobs to negatively impact the value of the services I provide.

[Chargingsnail]

“I can’t do that for the price we agreed upon but I would be happy to re quote once I am on site to clean the windows if you want. I expect it will be at least $200 extra. It may seem like it doesn’t take that long to remove spider webbing, around 20 seconds per window, but if you multiply that over 300+ it definitely becomes a billable item.” Insert your own numbers and text. Hope it helps!

[thorSG1]

What I mean is, the reply in itself isn’t the only means to build value is it?

[anon82274079]

On something silly, like changing a light bulb, or a battery on a smoke alarm, that takes you just a few minutes, I don’t charge, so long as they are repeat clients.

Something like your building manager that wants spider webs down… IF you can reach it with tools you have that day, then offer a deal like this " Normally this would cost $300 but I could authorize a one time discount of $100 bucks to help you out". Substitute the number you want to make for the $200, and jack your price to let them know they are getting a deal, hence value. Make sure you tell them it’s because they are a good client in good standing.
That $200 would represent 70-80% of what I would normally charge.

[thorSG1]

I’ve actually done exactly that and now she expects us to do it every time. I told her that I’d get what I could reach and it’d be another 3 something but this lady and 2 other property managers try to get extra stuff every single time.

Stuff that is literally another invoice or should be. When I shut em down it seems like they’re actually offended!

I feel the same way you do about how come they don’t ask the plumber or the cable guy to do extras for them but us they don’t hesitate.

Before I would jump as high as asked. Now I smirk.

I’ve noticed this allot more after l lost my Tundra and drive a hooptie junk truck. I honestly believe it’s a factor as crazy as it sounds.

I also noticed that I was able to charge more too