Tap water to wash windows?

Residential
61

I use a little GG4 but I wonder if you really need it sometimes. Yes, soap should remove more dirt but then again soap will also possibly leave its own residue on the glass and unlike taking a shower you will not be rinsing the glass with copious amounts of water to rinse off that residue (unless you are using a WFP of course and I assume not since we are talking storm windows here). Too much soap will leave a film, I have seen it myself, maybe any amount of soap will leave some film. I honestly donā€™t know, Iā€™m just floating the idea to see if others here have an opinion.

If the guy is scraping and wooling then maybe he is floating all the dirt (or eneough of it) to effectively do the same job as the soap. Iā€™d be hard pressed to attack the guy without more actual evidence that his tap water method is inferior. It sounds like he is putting a lot of effort into the job and has a lot of experience and I think it is quite possible his windows are coming out properly clean. Lacking clear evidence to the contrary I donā€™t think we can condemn him on this point alone. On the other hand Iā€™m tempted to say that using a proper amount of soap is the better method and that his choice is questionable. I canā€™t imagine trying to get off oliy stuff with no soap myself,

Does the guy give a reason for using water only? Itā€™s not like a little soap costs anything to speak of!

Hey, regarding the static electric charge issue. I wonder if these anti-static brushes and cloths might be of any use for our work http://framing4yourself.com/equipment-supplies/glass-plastic.htm (see bottom of ther page)

Has anyone tested to see just how much charge is left on a hard rubbed pane and how much dirt is attracted? Iā€™d like any info anyone has on this. I think Iā€™ll do a little test on my own windows and report back what I find.

62

told mike about this a little while ago
we were washing the outside of a LARGE all glass (roof included) sun room today. our water got so dirty so fast that we decided to change the water after only a couple windows. instead of walking back to the truck i told one of my guys ā€œlets try mr tap waters window cleaning methodā€. so i dumped the soapy water, rinsed our strip washers and filled the bucket with tap water, no soap. the tap water method lasted 1 window each. no matter how hard we scrubbed we could not get the dirt off the glassā€¦ you could actually step back and see a difference! i wished i had been able to take a picture of it to share.
bottom line i proved my own theoryā€¦ tap water will NOT leave a window clean. even if you can not see plain as day dirt and grime, it will be left behind.
any one who disagrees should waste some timeā€¦ you will feel and see the difference.

63

Chemical (soap) is a key ingredient in window washing solution. The above thread is our shining example of why it works.

Lets go into (IMO) how it works.

You could use strictly water or you could use strictly chemical. Obviously the water would [I]appear[/I] to work but the chemical alone would be a disaster. Mixed together in proper proportions (whatever that may be) the two work together.

The water is simply the vehicle for the chemical to ride upon. The water is the means to dilute the chemical and apply it to glass and it is also the vehicle that it is removed by. Water, being the vehicle to remove dirt plays a very important role but itā€™s properties are limited when it comes to breaking down soil.

Having been in the cleaning business for several years Iā€™ve become familiar with the term ā€œdwell timeā€. In my window ā€œcleaningā€ (you can wash windows and they still be ā€œuncleanā€) business I make a habit of applying my chemical/water solution to glass and making back and forth trokes, swirls, and up and down strokes across the glass with my strip washer to (depending upon the ā€œappearedā€ dirtiness of the glass) give the chemical dwell time and also to agitate the soils and remove the soils or whatever else may have adhered to the glass.

The chemical plays another important role of sudsing. This sudsing, in theory, is what lifts anything that has been broken down by the chemical and again, in theory, brings it to the surface ready to be removed with the action of the squeege.

So Mr. H2o only is in my opinion doing his customers a disservice. He can do whatever he wants really. But, heā€™s only got about 90% of the necessary ingredients in his BOB. The remaining 10% (Itā€™s only 10% right!) is what would make me if I was a customer choose one of us to clean my houses windows.

Do his windows look clean? Sure. Put them under a microscope though and I think weā€™d find a large difference in quality. Itā€™s this large difference under a microscope that convinces me to put up with the suds, the scent, and cost of using a chemical in my window cleaning solution. Otherwise, again, Iā€™d be washing windows and not cleaning them like Iā€™m hired to do.

BTW - glass is very porous. Itā€™s these pores that soils can settle into. How porous depends I think. Iā€™ve had 2 panes in a DH, 1 my towel slides across effortlessly and the other the towel meets much resistance. Itā€™s this resistance (I think) which is my evidence of pores in the glass.

64

Who has put it under a microscope and what was the result?

Before you can use it as proof, someone has to actually do it.

The same goes for dish soap leaving a residue. Who has put that under a microscope and where are those results?

65

We could also get into the Ph of the water.

Iā€™ve learned about water ionizers recently that can electronically change the Ph of water and make it acid or alkaline to different degrees.

Since chemical is an important ingredient in cleaning windows that presents a problem for wfp. However we are constantly rinsing with wfp. But, what if we were able to change the Ph of the water and make it more acidic? Would acidic water alone be enough to lift soils from glass?

Who uses a wfp system that uses chemical in addition to pure water?

BTW - I Googled ā€œglass surface under microscopeā€ and found little to nothing for pictures.

66

Perhaps you should buy a clothes cleaner and a dishcleaner (my point is semantics) so that your clothes and dishes are clean.

If youā€™re referring to chemical/detergent/soap, itā€™s a great deal less for GG3 (1/10 Fl. Oz. per gallon of water = 0.08%) and GG4 (1/4 Fl. Oz. per gallon of water = 0.2%.)

If his customers think the glass is clean and are happy, then that is one (very good) measure.

I think itā€™s probably evidence of something else.

Credit for this pic goes to Troy Liposec (PacifiClear Window Cleaning, Orange County, CA.) Troy posted it as part of a discussion on glass surface appearance and resistance and glass protectant products.

67

The guy is charging pennies per paneā€¦ How can we(or his clients) expect him to afford any kind of soap? He could hit the dollar store, pick up a bar of Dial, drop it in the bucket, and be set for the year. :stuck_out_tongue:

68

If you willing to scrub and scrape, you donā€™t need detergent.

A while back many were claiming that dish soap leaves a film.

Maybe the guy believes that.

Plain water is closer to being pure than water with soap in it.

The problem is that it is a weak cleaner so it depends on how dirty the windows are.

Why is it that what we do becomes a religion? Different people might do different things. We donā€™t have to do what they do.

69

Tell me if there is a difference when razoring the glass w/ or w/-out soap

70

You get more slide. If you have a sharp blade and a lot of water, you can still do it.

71

Do you use that clown as your bill collector?

If so, I bet they pay fast.

72

Just not as effective. Try razoring glass covered in paint or stain oversapray w/out soap. It sucks, takes more time, and produces poor results.
It was kinda funny when I was down at wcr for the wfp demo. Everyone kept saying ā€œyour buddyo the clown?ā€
U think the more recent avatar will help in bill collection?
I donā€™t need people, I have clowns

73

god i love this debate :slight_smile:

74

He will help with bill collection, but he wonā€™t be good at soliciting. :slight_smile:

For removing paint you need everything you can get on there.

The problem with paint removal is that they wonā€™t like the price.

I have a customer that just took off their own paint. The problem is that they left chips of paint all over the glass. They think the rest should come off real easy.

75

bla bla bla

76

Thatā€™s what we are doing.

I can wash a huge job without soap or with soap and you would never be able to tell the difference.

I can also remove paint without it and you would never know that either.

Anyone can do it.

In fact I donā€™t think you would be able to tell the difference in the appearance of the windows resulting from using any soap, GG4, GG3, or water only with any window.

77

I believe the WCā€™er using tap water without soap uses a squeegee to remove the water and dirt. So, no water is left to produce spots or stains, yes?

78

I donā€™t know :confused:. Tap Water Ted has over 40 houses booked for November. Go figure how does Tap Water Ted do it? Nick is helping me out today. Heā€™s doing a large house I couldnā€™t get to, sure hope he doesnā€™t decide to use tap water.

79

My theory on how he does it is simple - his clients donā€™t know better. They may have never had a professional window cleaner do their windows so they assume his way is OK.

80

My theory is the windows look great and the clients are satisfied.

Many of my clients donā€™t know my ā€œway.ā€

I think we get a little too full of ourselves sometimesā€¦

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