To Pump, or not to Pump, that is the Wash-iT PRO question!

NOTE : if this is a duplicate post, forgive me …

Well … I am going to release a series of conversations on this topic and ask some of you local guys to chime in …

Firstly, we designed the Wash-iT PRO around 3 principles :

1 The ability to operate under any conditions, PUMP-FREE

2 No costs spared for making the highest quality RO-DI system in the market with the maximum serviceability

3 No proprietary filters that ‘claw back’ the savings of ‘RO’ filtration by overcharging the DI and Carbon costs.

That said, we recognise that there are conditions where Wash-iT PRO - DUE TO THE NATURE OF ALL RO MEMBRANES - will perform at a lower level than ideal. This is mostly due to colder water temperatures.

Let me share an example that I gleaned from a conversation with one of our engineers :

[COLOR=#0000cd]Pure Water (permeate) production performance is not a simple answer.

I could run a flow curve test based on feed water pressure at the current water temperature.

Then run the same test 3 months later when the water temperature went up or down and come up with significant change in the curve.

The temperature at which all membranes are rated for flow is 77° F. (25°C.) It establishes a baseline for pressure performance.[/COLOR]
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Example:

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[COLOR=#0000cd]We just built a new system and my lab tech called me. He was concerned about the low performance. (This system has 2 – 4x40 membranes)[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#0000cd]o Permeate Flow: 2.5 gpm[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#0000cd]o Feed water Pressure: 150 psi[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#0000cd]o Feed water Temp: 41° F. (Water is damn cold in my area at this time of year)[/COLOR]
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Now when I plug in the temperature correction formula, the results are:[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#0000cd]o Permeate Flow: 3.82 gpm[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#0000cd]o Feed water Pressure: 150 psi[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#0000cd]o Feed water Temp: 61° F. (Normal summertime water temperature in MN)[/COLOR]
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In Florida in the summer this system will produce 5.3 gpm at 77° F.

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[COLOR=#0000cd]The system is performing as designed.
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[COLOR=#0000cd][B]Pump Recommendations: [/B]

The best answer here is when the window cleaner needs one for his unique set of conditions and market. Application driven.

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[COLOR=#0000cd][B]Cold Weather Operation: [/B]

Example:

The system above will produce .75 gpm @ 60 psi, 61°F.

In the summer but .48 gpm in the early spring or late fall.

This may not be enough flow for one guys taste but fine for another.

So he may want a pump to boost the feed water pressure, or use DI ONLY, or set up a Tank and Delivery Pump.

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[COLOR=#0000cd][B]Low Water Pressure Areas: [/B]

Some guys have low water supply pressures in their area where the clean.

Pressures continually below 40 psi and wanting to use RO, should use a proper boost pump.

Of course, they could switch to DI ONLY.

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[COLOR=#0000cd][B]Bigger Brushes: [/B]

Commercial guys running 18-24 inch brushes need and want higher flow rates to get the proper function from the larger surface area of the brush.

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[COLOR=#0000cd][B]Personal Preference: [/B]

Some guys want more flow all the time. This could be ignorance, or it could be experience.[/COLOR]
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[B]Multiple Poles, High Reach and [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#0000CD][B]Long Hose Runs[/B] at job site.

These are all reasons to require more water pressure, however, the customer may be better served with a small buffer tank and a Delivery Pump, compared to a proper booster pump.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#0000cd]We have not seen any evidence of water pressure only membranes having low product life.

[/COLOR]So … you can see that the answer is not always easy to predict, and the solutions are many and should be chosen wisely.

If you are seriously thinking of a BOOSTER PUMP, and you have heard the association with the WAYNE Brand, please do not think for one minute that every Wayne Pump is a Booster Pump. Completely to the contrary. Pumps are incredibly ‘purpose built’ and the standard pump you will find in Home Depot is not designed to push against the resisitance of an RO unit all the time - it has brushes and the brushes will wear out - it is designed for open, unhindered flow - on/off - putting resistance in the line will make it heat up and quickly burn out.

The proper BOOSTER PUMP in the USA is a Wayne Pump as used in the IPC Hydrocart and can be bought independently. It is 16:" x 8" x 8" and operates on 110V - it is a serious pump !

If I could influence y’all, I would encourage you to consider a small buffer tank 50-100 gallons - not from the industry - just an agricultural, or chemical purpose tank, then a Shurflo or Flojet pump to match your flow demands, and not much bigger…

Then, later, get yourself a flow-controller.

If possible, hook it up to a 12V leisure (deep cycle battery) with an intelligent battery charger …

Once you have the Flow Controller, your PUMP is ADDING VALUE to your business … not just pushing water through a membrane … and, it is all 12V - you don’t have to find a power source for your 110V Booster Pump.

Let the conversation begin :
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Perry
Would you please describe what a flow-controller does and why we should have one?

Thank you,

I second that!

This has been a recent conversation with Tony C myself and Marty, a buddy of ours also on here.

Personally, I have pretty much the set up mentioned, big buffer tank. 2gpm flojet pumps (2 of them). And a 12v deep cycle battery. Not sure how a Flo controller is truly beneficial, except to conserve a small amount of water IMO.

So, as Tony asked… Could you please tell us why a Flo controller would be necessary? Or any one else that uses them?

Thanks

Jeremiah

Jeremiah, Advantage Window Cleaning
Sent from my iPad using Window Cleaning Resource mobile app

Good summary Perry

I find higher flow linked to speed/pace/efficiency/effectiveness I guess that falls under experience rather than ignorance

This is a duplicate thread from another one ([B][I][U]link is here[/U][/I][/B]).

In the other thread, John Lee talked about adding a flow controller to his setup and how well it works for him. I think basically you can set it up to deliver a fixed flow for you regardless of height or hose length. He also said that they’ll be carrying flow controllers in the WCR store soon. He mentioned the RGH tank setup with a delivery pump and flow controller recently available for purchase in the WCR store.

Perry also hinted at a tank system from FOC coming out by May 2014 with that set up in mind (tank + delivery pump + flow controller).

seems for smaller ro systems, tank and delivery pump are the way to go and not necessarily meant to work live or are limited working live

for ro systems that have the higher gpm output, a delivery system insures, well, delivery, and can work live

then for offsite areas where input pressure is unreliable, booster pumps are needed for live work or purewater tank fill necessary in the field

lots of variables:

[B]Water source[/B]
none
well (and dependent on its pump)
low pressure
inconsistent pressure
regular consistent spigot pressure

[B]Water quality[/B]
well
silicates
low tds
high tds

[B]Pure water generation[/B]
DI only
RO/DI

[B]Pure Water storage[/B]
none - working 'live’
some - buffer
all - offsite remote no water access work

[B]Water delivery height[/B]
low
med
high

[B]water delivery gpm preference/need[/B]
low
med
high

The description on this describes many of the pump controller benefits.

Digital Pump Controller-Single