What sort of price do you put on these since they’re clearly extra work?
Bah - Never mind, just saw the answer on a previous post. 
Pays to see if there’s a “next” page. :rolleyes:
They’re only a pain if you do not have an efficient system in place.
I like them for two reasons. :rolleyes:
- They are difficult for customers to do on their own, so they are more likely keep me on as the window washer.
- They are usually made of annealed glass so there are no fabricateing debris issues to worry about.
Mike makes some excellent points! The only caution is, as Mike said, usually they aren’t tempered but I have run across some homes where they have updated the storms and the newer ones are tempered. It’s the reason I get a waiver from every customer no matter what the windows are.
Just got done with an old Cape Cod hotel. Old true divided wood windows with triple track storms. I tried using different methods to compare speed. I didn’t use a stop watch but just got a pretty good gut feel for how fast i was moving. First method was taking out both storms and cleaning them on the inside of the building. I made an easel out of a ladder and a section of gutter as shown and described by others on wcr. The problem with the ladder easel, for me, was that it was clunky and difficult to move around. I think I wasted way to much time taking out both storms.
The reason why i was hesitant to leave on of the storms in was that when I had tried that method in the past, I have had trouble moving the tabs (I have half-way carpal tunnel in both wrists) as many of them are almost corroded shut. I have also had them fall to the bottom and get stuck so that I could reach in and get to the tabs without going back inside the building.
This time, though, I wanted to see if I could overcome my previous failure and use the 1 in 1 out method for storms. I found that the previously intractable storms could be cajoled with a 5 in 1 tool, maybe a large slotted screwdriver and a mallet might work well too. As for the other problem, I found that I just place the 5 in 1 tool flat on the bottom of the ledge to prevent the window from closing.
Maybe next year, I will be skillful enough to start shuffling.
I can see why a lot of window cleaners remove both storms, however. If I was cleaning these in someone’s home, I don’t know if I would want even a drop of gunk on their carpet… especially if it was white carpet.
However, I think my rolling organizer can solve that problem. I will post pics when my modifications are complete and acceptable to me. I have modified it a few times… worked great to put the storm windows on top of as an easel. Much more nimble than the ladder easel. Plus I have extra rubbers an assortment of channels that will work on any french pane, bronze wool, magic erasers, squirt bottle of solution, extra squeegee handles… all in one place. So as I was cleaning this large hotel, I didn’t have to do what I have done in the past, run back to my vehicle or to another bin I left halfway across the building to retrieve some piece of equipment.
[COLOR=#333333][INDENT]The only caution is, as Mike said, usually they aren’t tempered but I have run across some homes where they have updated the storms and the newer ones are tempered. It’s the reason I get a waiver from every customer no matter what the windows are.[/INDENT]
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Some of the really old houses or buildings have a complete hodgepodge of window types. Even within one window - I have seen a lot of true-divided windows with a replacement square that was tempered unlike the rest of the panes in the window.
I’m getting to where I can lightly touch the razor blade to the glass and feel if it’s tempered.
I couldn’t do that on the west coast, though. Way more problems with fabrication debris and tempering IMO. Also I have a lot less problems with paint overspray. The painters where I lived in Washington State were notorious for not taping the windows and just spraying around them.
Regional stuff seems to make a big difference,
Pick up a bag of popsicle sticks, you can keep them in your pocket and place them over the tracks to prevent the top storm from falling all the way down on you
I’ve done hundreds of homes with triple track storms by myself. I use to use the shuffle method 90% of the time. The trick to not getting locked out is to take the bottom of the storm window off the track and place them on the sill when you set up the job from the inside. I take out the screen and lower both storms when I set up. Haven’t been locked out in years.
In my experience, there is no notch at the bottom of the outer track where the upper storm sits, all you need to do is lift it up.
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Jay:
Do you leave the storms clipped in the tracks or take the bottom edge off the track and rest in on the sill? I haven’t done storms for a couple years now so I forget. I think I use to leave the top storm clipped to the track. I guess I only unclipped the bottom one and placed it on the sill.
Usually both go in the sill.
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Jay needs to have a webinar to teach everyone how to clean triple track storms. He must clean at least 100 per week if not per day. After that, he can really blow some minds by showing us how to clean friction storms.
I would totally attend that!
What are friction storms?
They are storms held in with friction, usually some type of spring, they don’t come out of the tracks and can only be shuffled.
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See, Jay knows storms!
Jay: how many 6x6 windows with triple track storms can you and a great helper do in two hours? Let’s say the house is only two stories and it’s always done once a year so the glass doesn’t need any extra work.
About 24
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That’s an interesting way to ask the question ;). But I suppose the speed of the employee does matter, and things do average out over a couple hours, so I can see where you’re coming from.
[MENTION=330]hunterst[/MENTION] - So 6 units per person per hour? Not bad. I think I can only knock out 4-5 of those per hour. Then again, I can’t remember the last time I washed windows like that that didn’t need any additional work.
I’ve asked the question before and people always bring in the variables that slow us down. Like I don’t know that every job is different. He’s a speedster for sure. I’m happy with four an hour but I work Alone and I’m old and tied. Haha
Actually I don’t do them anymore.
Our schedules are timed out pretty tight which is the main reason why I don’t take the time to make a video on keeping triple tracks in. We have a few twice a year customers with good storms and good windows that I could probably do 8-10 in an hour.
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