Why Because I take the extra time to keep my customers happy?
Because you can’t know either way. How can your ignorance make them happy?
Tony,
I understand and respect your no waiver, no work stance. I just don’t understand whyI don’t offer the “I won’t scrape these windows because they might scratch” approach. Do you let a customer know when you have scraped tempered glass? Do you scrape all glass all the time? I know the defect isn’t your fault and you are protected by your waiver so why not give them the option of reducing the chance of scratching there glass?
I have never offered alternative methods. If others want to that’s up to them. At the time of educating the customer I’ll actually point out which windows might be tempered (in almost every home around here generally less than 30% of the windows are tempered) and explain they are the reason I need the waiver signed. In our market I would have 2 choices for what you are suggesting - 1) charge more for the extra time it would take to clean those windows which would price me out of the market or 2) eat the extra time and make less money. Neither option makes sense for 3 reasons - 1)the defect isn’t my responsibility, 2) you can never verify the presence or absence of FD in the field, and 3) I feel better knowing I’m helping expose the defect instead of covering it up.
I’m not trying to get you to do things differently just trying to understand the reasoning for the way you do them. I’m pretty sure a waiver would not hold up in court here in Massachusetts thats why I lean towards not scraping any tempered glass at all(especially Old Castle)
They will need lots of luck doing that. Any of the insurance companies I have called and spoke w/ know about scratched glass FD related claims and will not cover me for this.
I thought as much but wanted to make sure. Thanks for answering my question Art.
Jesse
I heard that form other Massachusetts guys. That’s unfortunate. Iowa is a totally different ball game though so we don’t have the same problem as you guys.
Do what you need to protect yourself then but around here people wouldn’t go for a partial clean w/out a seriously lower price and I don’t have any problem getting the waiver signed and getting paid.
Im glad I came across this…I was getting ready to post a question about this. I have a estimate to do(1 hour away) new Construction…over 100 windows. 95% stickers off…some spackle and mortar on window(this is being told to me by builder) I will be taking a ride there). Educated builder on FD and emailed him stuff on it. he told me they are marvin windows and they specifically say dont use razors. Now…I do have a waiver. Do I have him sign it and use a razor on only specified windows as I state in waiver. Or Dont use a razor at all. i mean if the manufacturer says not to use razors…Im guessing they are going with that. And if you dont use razors…what do you tell the customers? I will do it the best I can, but cant guarentee they will be perfect? Tony…I know you say you dont use any alternatives…does that include steel wool, etc? This should be a $1000+ job and builder said probably 2 times a a year. regardless…just want to hear more on it. Hope this isnt considered hijacking a thread…I think it was on the same topic. thanks…
Dave, I say I don’t use alternative methods. You can use whatever you want. I use bronze wool for hard water stain removal but when cleaning glass I use the razor. I have seen those stickers from Marvin and I’ve gotten photos from guys showing them using a razor to remove them. I found that very funny!
I present the builder w/ the waiver and the education and tell him that I’m the professional and I’ll be using industry standard tools (ie the razor) to remove debris his subs or employees got on the glass. If he balks I remind him that the windows are supposed to be covered thru every stage of construction so this wouldn’t be an issue. On a CCU I would use Titan Labs Cement Off <a href=“Shopwindowcleaner.com” target=“_top”><img src=“Shopwindowcleaner.com cement off gallon.jpg” alt=“” title=“” /></a><img style=“border:0” src=“Shopwindowcleaner.com” width=“1” height=“1” alt=“” /> to loosen mortar to prevent damage that way. I think a CCU is the best time to get to educate someone. You get to help a builder start to demand better products. As for the Marvin stickers tell the builder to ask the Marvin rep to come clean off the garbage his guys go ton them. Bet he can’t do it! And I bet he has no valuable ideas for cleaning them either. His response will likely be what GANA says - “you’re the window cleaner you should know how”. We do it’s called a razor!
I hear ya tony…but if he balks…you walk away right? Hell, he might even sign the waiver…not sure yet. I have to figure what Im gonna do here. Where are those pics of marvin windows showing a guy using a razor…I would like to use that also as a prop. I think this may be a very lucrative account…and if I can get thru this first cleaning…it may be smooth sailing. Of course i would charge accordingly if I cant use a razor if I go that route
Hey I understand all sides, no need for calling names. You just don’t want to accept my pov on this, maybe there isn’t as much competition where you are. Lucky you. Here I try keep people happy and coming back= developing new methods.
I apologize, it wasn’t my intent to call you names. I was simply pointing out that none of us can factually say whether FD is present w/out having done a proper lab exam of the glass. If you have been using a microscope to check this glass I stand corrected. I will say I have seen on pane on a French door from Old Castle that had a chunk of FD on it that I could visibly see from 4ft away. If you are running into this a lot I can see where you might believe you can “tell” if the glass is bad. Is that the case?
No Bro all I’m saying is that you can test a lower corner and if the feeling is there steel wool it. Your arm is sore, but your customer is happy and calling you back and maybe some refferals.
I see. Of course you realize the defect has already done damage at that point right? Do you pay to replace the glass that is now damaged? Now how do you differentiate the sound of say paint or other debris makes when it is removed?
Atta boy Tony! I am feelin your frustration.
I used to be a lot more dogmatic about the subject but I am beginning to realize some guys live in areas where the legal system fails to protect the innocent (and often unsuspecting) businessman or they feel like they will lose to much business if they push the waiver. I feel sorry for them. I love window cleaning but if the time ever comes here where I’m expected to pay for a manufacturer’s defect then I can always do something else.
It’s to bad we all can’t get together on this issue but I realize that’s an unrealistic thought.
I will offer to give anyone help over the phone or in person if they find themselves in a bind where FD is concerned. My number is 319-325-9475
Tony,
Ever see the episode of King of Queens where Doug and Carrie have a mold problem and they get those russian contractors to fix the problem? They get a quote from the russian contractors and a little while later there a “change of order” and the quote goes up. Then Carrie gets really mad and forces Doug to ask the G.C. about why the price had gone up from the original. Doug tells the guy politely and the russian flips out says I don’t have X- Ray vision to see thru walls " perhaps you should call captain superman to fix it". lmao
I always wanted to say that to someone that complains about the waiver. I will 100% agree with you on this matter Tony. In the past, I assumed silly things like that you can tell if it has fabricating debris if you scrape a little corner( this advice is actually given by many who have done this trade for a long time ) and it is totally wrong. It should never be are responsibility to find all the glass that has fabricating debris. We don’t have X- Ray vision, so to speak, and can see that this glass has fabricating debris and this one doesn’t. Just charge accordingly. If you use alternative methods, it can be hard to justify the higher price with a slower method. I have gotten waivers looked over by lawyers so it would be good to get legal advice as these matters differ from state to state.
I am just trying to make a comical attempt at the matter. I wish I had the link to that episode. I love the King of Queens.
Here ya go Jerry. 
It’s actually a two-part episode but the part you are referring to is in this first part.
big thanks InsideOut for putting up that link:D I nearly spit my drink out every time i watch this episode:) I wish this show was still running. I think it’s hilarious how Doug and Danny are actually brothers in real life.
