With a waiver signed I still won’t blatantly razor tempered glass. Just me. Educating the client and leaving them w/ scratched glass is not my goal. Yes it takes longer initially but in keeping the client long term, yea that works.
Not sure why you would say blatantly? Unless you think you can identify bad glass. If you think you can identify bad glass then the waiver is of no value.
I educate the customer that there is a possible defect involved, have them sign the waiver, and clean the glass. Anything else is the responsibility of the manufacturer of the defect.
Weather I can Identify bad glass or not is irrelavent. The possibility of still dislodging fd from razoring the entire surface will leave my client w/ messed up glass. Here is where I have a tuff time w/ some guys. They educate their potential client that there is a possible defect with there tempered glass, have them sign the waiver, razor all surfaces of glass, then leave the job w/ (lets say some or many, depending on the home) glass exposed to dislodged fd. That client wouldn’t call me back nor would I expect them to honestly. I believe in educating the client that there is a possible defect w/ their tempered glass and telling them I am not going to go out of my way to leave them w/ glass exposed to, excessive or maybe unnecessary, dislodged fd. Just me man I can respect your position as a business owner and where we all sit as window cleaners in the industry. Tony I really appreciate your input on this matter and your experience.
I understand your dilemma Art. I do have some sympathy for the homeowners problem. I just can’t realistically solve it. Alternatives are to time consuming (or hazardous w/ the chemicals you might have to use), if there is a large amount of FD present steel wool could dislodge it, and spot scraping as some suggest can and will dislodge FD anyway. I find my customers understand the issues at hand and that I can’t solve the problem. That’s why the proper education is important.
Agreed, we can’t realistically solve the problem but we can prevent the majority of dislodged fd damage by spot razoring(not the case w/ overspray) Again I can’t stop putting myself in my client’s shoes
Again I agree but I still have not left my client upset w/ clean windows adn doors covered w/ dislodged fd damage.
Agreed, but after educating my client about fd, having them sign the waiver, spot razoring to keep the dislodged fd damage to a minimum, I believe in doing all this earns the respect of the client and possible repeat business for years.
This part puzzles me. I would like to know how you educate your customer about fd and the process to clean their windows then leave the glass w/ possible dislodged fd damage.(referring to all panes razored completely vs. spot razoring) This might be a great conversation on a Sat. or Sun over the phone. Would be great to talk to you. Again thanks for all your input and experience. Hoping you don’t take any of this in a way other than good conversation between wcrs. I know how text can be taken at times w/ a different meaning. Take care man.
I don’t want to get off topic with this thread but I remember seeing someone posting about a strip washer being able to scratch tempered glass that has FD. Does anyone know if there was a post about that. I just can’t seem to find it. Correct me if I am wrong but a strip washer that is perfectly clean should never dislodge fabricating debris, right? I would imagine that this is only possible if:
- Glass fines were already dislodged from someone else.
- You have a dirty strip washer that was dropped and not cleaned( this would be really stupid ) or from CCU that has mortar and other crap and gets stuck in the stripwasher ( this is why i just use a nylon bristle brush or hog bristle for CCU work )
- strip washer has pieces of steel wool stuck in there that have rusted (that can’t be good)!
Sorry if I being a little paranoid but Fabricating Debris just stresses me out. And I absolutely hate the fact that GANA doesn’t want to be responsible for pumping out glass with all these defects. Don’t use scraper on heat strengthened glass. ok,will then how the heck do i make the glass crystal clear. it’s like a catch 22.
I guess at this point the waiver is the only solution other than walking away from the job… very frustating
I mean don’t get me wrong, I have no problem using safe alternative methods (if there are any ) and I will do whatever the homeowner wants… and if they don’t want me to use a razor will then so be it. So far I had only one person ever tell me to not use a razor and this was a CCU. They didn’t even want me to use steel wool ( no guarantee that steel wool won’t scratch ) and so I just did the best I could. At least the contractors did a excellent job of covering the windows which is rarely the case as we are all too familar with!
I don’t “spot razor” because that can be construed as a test for fabricating debris, and I know that one cannot prove that fabricating debris is not present.
I provide education, get a signed waiver, and begin cleaning. If, during the course of using my scraper, I notice that fabricating debris is probably present (sound/texture) I stop and ask what the owner/builder would like me to do and we discuss. I do not continue to knowlingly scrape the pane.
There are instances, of course, when one does not have any indication that fabricating debris is present until a later time.
I’d love to chat on the phone Art. The best time for me would be late Saturday afternoon. I’ll be busy most of the day on Sunday.
My approach is similar. Most of the time my clients aren’t home so that isn’t an option. Add to that when I do the first cleaning the windows haven’t been touched in years. They are covered in garbage. With all that I couldn’t even begin to think about whether there is FD on the tempered. The waiver allows me to clean the glass (remember that here tempered panes account for less than 25% of the glass on the homes) and not have to give the customer a half done job.
I get waivers signed each time. We use bronze wool and scrapers both. We bronze wool all of the inside glass unless a scraper is absolutely necessary. We usually scrape exterior double hung, single hung, casement or sliding windows. We wool all tempered glass such as glass doors, sidelites or atrium windows. We also wool all atrium windows because some of them have an annealed coating on them. I know there are stickers on the windows for annealed glass usually but we just don’t take any chances. All of my customers are still happy. To each his own. This is what I do.
well you probably shouldnt go around scratching glass on purpose. steel wool works if you use the superfine stuff
That’s a common misconception. It’s the defect that causes the problem and you can’t test for its presence or absence. A razor is the only realistic way to remove debris from heavily soiled windows.
Another common misconception, eh?
Not really.
Did so…did not…did so…did not…did so…did not
Geez, where am I…7th grade???
Steel Wool
has it been determined to not increase the effects of FD on windows?
has it been determined that steel wool will not in and of itself cause more scratches with FD present?
I use the 0000 steel wool. Still can not find a local source for Brass Wool (thanks for your info Tony BTW, but too expensive to ship to Canada)
Thanks Ed
ps. I do not think a regular strip washer will cause scratches on a window with FD present, but that is my thoughts. Some of the radical and hybred ones like the scrubber sides, just might cause scratches though they are very aggressive.
I recently cleaned the exterior windows on a former Blockbuster Video store, now renovated into a Mattress Center.
I asked the GC on site to walk w/ me as I pointed out the scratches and defects on the glass prior to any intilal cleaning.
He didn’t seem care either way about signing any waiver, in fact he clearly said I didn’t even need one
But honestly folks, we’ve all dealt w/ enough of these GC’s in the past doing CCU’s, that I’ve learned to CMA on myself (cover my own arrs) when doing Construction Clean Up’s.
I even go one step further, I ALWAYS [B]TAKE BEFORE PICTURES! [/B]
And after the job’s complete, I ALWAYS [B]TAKE AFTER PICTURES![/B]
BTW, he eventually saw the light of reasoning and signed my waver release.
Life Is Good 
Aren’t there companies set up to successfully perform CCU services with alternative methods?
Depends on your idea of successfully.
Clean glass.
