1st big problem with Safe restore

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1

hi there

Did a home yesterday in/out, and a few windows had a few hardwater marks, specially 3 of them at the back of the house facing the lake.

I used safe restore on 2 windows on the side of the house , single hung windows, I applied it only to the bottom part, and final result was excellent.

ON the 3 windows in the back (fixed IG units) only 2 of them turned out fine, 1 of them still looked stained but not big deal, customer liked it and said it was much better. Like always, because I’m really stupid for certain things, I didn’t charge him for the hardwater because I wasn’t satisfied the way they turned out, and they already referred us to 4 other people, on top of that they are REALLY nice people. I came home with a jar of homemade pickles :slight_smile:

This morning he leaves me a message telling there’s some sort of film or haze on the 3 windows in the back, I called him back and offered to go over there to take a look.

the 2 side windows I did on the side of the house are great, but these 3 have a haze, white-ish residue, not too heavy but still noticeable. I scraped it with no luck, steel wool, another shot of Safe Restore on one corner and everything still the same.

I’m pretty sure for what I’ve read here that the glass is burnt, you can see a orange peel kind of texture if you get really close.

I know my last option is replacement, but that’s really expensive on 3 windows roughly 32x65 inches.

What should I do ? Get the Jflint kit and give it a try myself? Try to get a scratch removal company to do it for me ? Is there any Glassrenu service in Houston ?

if someone wants to chime in and comment I’d appreciate it.

The meeting with the customer was really stress free, they were really understanding and know we are going to take care of it, but I’m worried about the final cost of this accident.

I have pics on my cell, not sure if they show any of the haze but will try to post them later

2

Sorry but pics don’t show crap, too much reflection.

3

thought this stuff didn’t cause tin etch haze, must be something else, unless it was allowed to dry on the glass?

4

I was wondering the same thing Bruce.
Carlos - was the chemical allowed to dry on the glass?

5

I don’t think so, I waited until all the glass was clean to allow the sun to stop hitting those windows, then cleaned them with plenty of water to cool them down more (they were not hot anyway) and worked on one window at a time.

Let’s say it dried on the glass ? what should be my next move ?

Honestly I’m trying to be honest, professional and do the right thing, I’m about to sell the company and if I were “other” kind of person I’d say “it wasn’t my fault” and move on, but I have to go to bed each night and sleep with my conscience clean, and I cannot put a price on that, but I want to avoid the cost and hassle of having to replace them.

there’s a company here how deals with leaded glass, and they make this triple glazzed IG units, a leaded window sandwiched in between 2 glass panes, they say on their website they can take an IG unit apart and replace just on pane, I might have to talk to them about that.

Broken and Failed IG Repairs - Freebird Glass

6

are you absolutely sure this haze wasn’t there after you washed them and before applying the safe restore?

I just ask, cause sometimes we’re just rolling along. I don’t know if the haze is very slight or totally white is why I ask.

In the past, I have taken care of things that I was sure I didn’t do, pretty sure I didn’t do and knew I did do it.

7

Hey Bruce, agree with you on fixing stuff we didn’t break, but it makes me feel better and that’s good, makes me poorer at the same time :slight_smile:

Sure the haze wasn’t there before, it didn’t show while cleaning and it didn’t show after we cleaned the glass. The customer woke up this morning and opened the blinds and saw this, he tried to rinse it of with water, maybe windex and he couldn’t , so he called me.

8

Did you look at the windows at the same time of day as he did after you removed the stains? Some issues only reveal themselves under certain lighting conditions. It is possible that the haze was there after the majority of the stain was removed and you couldn’t see it right away.
I’d try another (heavier) application of OneRestore and scrub w/ bronze wool.

9

I didn’t Tony, but you can tell the window looks different from what it did before we cleaned them, i believe we did nothing wrong, but is my responsibility since we were the last ones working there and the window looked “normal” before we treated it.

I did another application in one corner but honestly made no difference at all.

The thing that really caught my attention was the orange-peel like texture that can be seen on the part with the haze and the part not affected by the haze is normally smooth like a regular piece of glass.

there’s a de-hazer right ? I’ve read something about it when someone messed a piece of glass with CC550 ? does WCR carries that de-hazer? do you recommend getting some of it before going into more expensive methods ?

Thanks again you guys for the help

10

I’m out of the town at the moment, and I don’t know what prompted me to look at WCR since I have a terrible connection… but here I am, and the magnetics of gool 'ol WCR got me to see this thread. I won’t be available for a few days, so I’ll try to be thorough:

  1. If you are ABSOLUTELY sure that the damage is on the outside of the glass and not inside the unit (which of course is obvious that you would never be responsible for damage to an interior of an IG unit-- because that’s just failure of a unit-- but the orange peel texture sounds like an interior fog to me, so I thought I’d just make one more plea to make sure it’s the outer surface) then most likely you caused the problem. And yes… it’s rare… but OneRestore can burn tin. I’ve done it. Twice. We use the stuff like crazy and occasionally (possibly coincidentally, but both on high end homes with about 10 year old windows… just an observation) it will burn the tin. It’s important to note that neither OneRestore or CC550 can burn glass. It’s just not an etching compound, so it’s a really important distinction that it is not the glass that is damaged-- it’s the tin.

SOOOO…

  1. If you did in fact etch the tin (it is confirmed on the outer surface) you will need to remove that layer. I just got a Mr. Hard Water system (and I think every business should have one because it is really great) and my gut tells me that with a bunch of time and energy, you could get the tin all off. But I also just bought a Glass Renu system, and I know for a fact that you would be able to fix any tin problem with that. Both times that I had a problem with OneRestore etching the tin I have successfully fixed it by having a guy with a Glass Renu System pay the job a visit. He charged $75 for each repair and I applied the $30 repair price that I charged the customer toward that. So I came out of pocket $45 each time. The point is that the tin will permeate the microscopically rough surface of the glass and you will have to remove that microscopic layer and get to the bottom of all the natural “pits” in order to remove all of that damaged tin in order to get back to the glass.

Hopefully that all makes sense, but having seen the OneRestore damage to tin, I would have also expected you to remark about the iridescence or “rainbow effect” that tin etch tends to look like. One more reason that I wonder if there is a chance that it is a fog between the panes (which is sometimes only visible when the light hits at a certain angle). I hope I’m not coming across as a know-it-all, you are a super smart guy, Carlos… I just had a couple red flags go up that I thought I’d mention so that I don’t waste any of your time trying to fix something that just can’t be repaired or couldn’t possibly be your fault.

I wish you luck… and when I get back to the office on Monday I’ll try to remember to check in on this thread to see if I made sense or if you were able to find any resolution!

11

‘Texture’ almost implies to me that something is flaking off? from how I am understanding this, it sounds like perhaps the glass may have been reversed in installation and some low-e coating or something may have been on the side worked with?

a picture would be interesting to see

12

OOOhhh… I doubt it is the flaking, because Carlos would have caught that, but I am sure that the Low-E issue could totally be it (I’ve seen that quite a few times). If it is, there might be a warranty issue, but if it’s outside of warranty, just treat it as you would tin etch.

13

yeah that posted while you were posting too there Curt. Texture and orange peel is throwing me off.

Yet another reason to have a Glass Renu system. Man that thing can save your hide.

Curt, I think WCR will eventually set up a dept with counselors to cure forum addiction and offer sit ins for family interventions so vacations can be uninterrupted :open_mouth:

14

Excellent observations guys, and thanks Curt for the detailed explanation.

When I made reference to this orange peel like texture, I meant visual texture, not the one you can feel dragging your fingers over it.

I honestly doubt it can be inside the glass, because if you get your finger wet and touch the hazed area, it changes color to a normal glass color, and it dries back to that milky haze.

I might have to see how to get in touch with Glassrenu and see if there’s someone in my area who can help me out here.
This afternoon I was ready to order the Mr Hardwater kit, but $300+ just to try and then maybe who knows how much to pay someone to fix my mess … not really sure. Remember I’m selling my business in the next few months so honestly I don’t want to invest in more tools right now, I wish I’ve had discovered that kit couple years ago.

Thanks one more time for taking the time to provide your advice here and I’ll try to get pictures as soon as I have a chance.

15

What you could do is not use any strong chemical on any window unless the customer is willing to take the risk.
You could try some typical mild hard water deposit removers.
If the hard water deposits will not come off easily, you may be in for an unknown amount of work with unsure results.
Unless you are a genuine expert on hard water deposits, you may get in trouble with it.

Also how much are you going to charge for it if it doesn’t work that well?
How much time are willing to risk on it? What if your time is wasted?

16

If the haze disappears when wet, then applying a glass sealant may fix the problem. WCR sells them, and it’s a cheap and quick fix.

17

I have used ABR de-etcher on that kind of stain with a buffer, it worked. It’s expensive, for a little jar it was $80.00, but bit cleans up those type of burns really well. It was the only thing that worked sans glass renu, which I have.

18

I got in touch with a guy who does glass restoration and he told me he can do the job at $85 per window, so $255 for all 3.

Now, I’m considering getting the Jflint kit at around $290 and give it a try, if I can’t fix it I’m gonna have to pay the guy to do it for me, so is $255 for a one time deal, or $290 to fix it myself and keep a nice tool that can make me money in the future, OR … $290+$255 to fix this mess and keep the tool and keep practicing.

Don’t forget I’m selling the company and moving by the end of the year, so not thrilled about the investment but I think it can really add value to the company at the moment of sale.

Keep commenting and let me thank y’all for al the advice so far

have an nice weekend

19

I’m almost certain I’ll be buying the Mr Hardwater over the weekend just would like to hear form someone who owns this kit and and wants to share the experience.

20

I’ve used mine a few times. Really saves on the elbow grease. I’ve used it with powders from both Jeff and Tony with equally great results.

I did make a little mess in my own shower with a bit of a rooster-tail (my first use of it out of the box.)