Hey Larry I’m on your side.
I know there are no alternative methods that really work. I also know that a one inch safety razor is really 1.5 inches. If you read my earlier posts you will see that I know the new alternative methods are a health hazard for the worker and a failing seal hazard for the window. And the paint on the frame could also get damaged. It’s a big mess. So… I’m using the Ettore 1.5 inch razor and bronze wool, because there is almost zero risk of scratching the glass. If the windows needs more agressive methods than that I can’t help the customer.
My friends in the carpet and upholstery cleaning business have warned me. Liberal judges will hang me out to dry if I scratched up a ladies windows with a window scraper. A waiver is meaningless. BECAUSE,I AM A PROFESSIONAL AND SHOULD KNOW BETTER! :eek:
Of course the judge knows nothing about the FD issue. All he knows is a bozo with a scraper ruined someones windows, and the victim needs justice. :o
It isn’t just tempered glass that should not be scraped it’s all architectural glass.
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I do not think architectural glass is annealed glass. Perhaps some of it is and some of it is tempered, I’m not sure. Does anybody know? At any rate it is the new high performance glass that needs special care. It all looks about the same to me. My truck doesn’t have a crystal ball in it. Does yours?[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Heat strengthened glass has no stamp and it can be scratched. So if the job is the new architectural glass I will be treating it as if it is heat strengthened or tempered. I don’t want to guess. The GANA bulletin says all architectural glass so that is what it means. NO RAZORS on all architectural glass mean NO RAZORS. The window doesn’t need a sticker. We are the professionals and we are supposed to know what kind of glass should not be scraped and what kind of glass can be scraped.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]If I was getting $20,000 per house it might be worth the risk to scrape all the windows and hope they don’t scratch, but I am only getting about $450 a house. It doesn’t make sense to risk loosing thousands maybe even tens of thousands of dollars to earn $450. Does it make sense to you?[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Somebody doesn’t care what GANA thinks. (I think it was Tony ;)) I wonder if a judge would care what GANA thinks?[/FONT][/COLOR]
I’d be careful Mike. Just because you’re using a smaller razor doesn’t mean “almost zero risk”. If FD is present the 1.5" will dislodge it the same as a 6". There will still be scratching because of the defect.
If “the bozo” has a client signed waiver and educated the customer on FD and never promised to find or detect FD then you have almost zero risk. I haven’t heard of anyone that followed that procedure losing a case.
Good to go Kev. Risk like that are stupid. I personally love it. Why? I got a call this past December from a large corp prop manag comp. They asked me to come look over the windows. I go and find a ton of scratches on the inside glass. All over the place. The guy told me he had no idea what happened. He hired a window cleaner in the area, price was $1000. And this the quality they got. The place is a 20,000 sq ft office building. This window cleaners price was for in and out. I looked the guy in the face and told him. If you want me to clean in an out on this place you can bet it’s not going to cost you $1000. I guess he tought I was going to be cheaper. My price was my standard $2500 for the outside. I tossed him a quote for $8000 for the inside. He almost had a heart attack. I told him, if you would have hired me before hand the price would not have been this high. But being I already know I am dealing with scratched glass my risk now has shot through the roof. I hold a rider for broken or scratched glass but that still don’t mean I want to call my insurance company about it. I also informed him due to the scratching now. I will clean the glass but not till I have a signed wavier stating that the scratches were already there before my company cleans it. He said that would be fine. I asked the guy how many companys he called before he had the cleaner do the work. Answer, no one. Just this guy. I asked him what is going on with the guy? He said the guy shut his phone off. LOLOLOLOL. Yeah I love it. Try to be a cheap ass and this is what you get. Hire a cheapO company and this is what you get. Before I left I explained to him that he would get what he paid for with my company, but one thing he will not be able to get with my company is a brand new window or repaired window. I could see the look on his face and felt bad for him. I could see he was worried about telling his boss or the building owner that most of the NEW glass they had installed is now scratched to high hell. Oh well. But hey Kev like I said. Good for you.
I’m always amazed at some of these guys. They put up WALLS of glass, that we all know cost a lot more then concreat, sheet rock etc. Then they expect US to come clean something that in some cases is 20% of the total building cost. For $2.00. Makes no sense. The building up the road from me is almost all glass. When looking at the mortgage on the building it’s 7 million. So that tells me they spent a pretty good penny on that glass. Not to include their , shipping & install costs. If it is 20% you can do the math. Yet they will let that wall be cleaned for $1000 by someone who does not educate themselve. I met a cleaner the other day who has been in business for 25 years. Or so he says. I have no reason to not belive him. He was a really cool guy. But he had not idea about about FD. How can you be in an industry and not stay educated? Oh well.:eek:
Hey Juggernaut,
How true. When I see window cleaners and window tinters I always stop to ask what they are seeing with FD in the field and the majority of them get the deer in the headlights kinda look. I saw a couple of guys tinting some large panes of glass for a local blockbuster so I stopped to ask them. In watching their process, I found it a different. They misted the outside of the glass quickly, began to run wild w/ the razors, and then applied the film to the outsides of the windows. When I asked them about FD they had no clue what it was but after talking w/ them awhile 1 says to me “I wondered what that ticking was”
I always wondered about tinters. They use razors as well but when the film is applied does it cover (prevent the sun from highlighting) the scratches from the FD. Well it must depend on the darkness of tint. A tinter I recommend often was telling me he was called to a job to tint windows, on a new construction, because the painter had his guys clean the windows, and the majority of them were scratched from FD. He applied 2 different tints but they did not cover. From what I was told this was a $6mil home w/ as much as $100,000.00 worth of scratched glass. It sucks how many people are negatively affected by a poor quality product that could be fixed during the early stages of the manufacturing process. Sorry so long
So true what you said about the glass installation cost versus maintenance cost.
If I bought a Lamborghini, would I wash it at the $2 coin-operated self-wash?
Why build buildings into glass palaces that costs $20 mil then whine and complain when it costs real money to maintain it looking beautiful?
So stupid.
Like refusing to dry clean your $6,000 Hugo Boss suit because you can’t afford the dry cleaning bill.
Wow.
I had a brand-new Honda dealership tell me that they don’t need to spend a lot to clean their expansive (like MASSIVE) walls of windows, because their Honda cars sell themselves…
(Really? Then why didn’t you build a cheap concrete warehouse space for them, instead?)
Some people like to sound smart, and must secretly hope that no one ever actually thinks about whether they are making any sense or not.
As the professionals we know all glass needs to be scraped to get the debris off. We also know that some tempered is defective. The stickers and the bulletins are a smoke screen. With a waiver in place the smoke screens don’t work.
As for the judge he will wonder why the recent problem w/ tempered glass and GANA’s rush to cover their butts when the facts are presented. Dan Fields will tell you he has never lost a case where the waiver was in place.
Their scratches were on the inside. They did not have the outsides cleaned. My risk as far as I’m concerned is dealing with whats on the outside. If the inside was any indication of problems, then the outside would surly be interesting. Since I would have the wavier surly my risk would not be that high. But he don’t know that. Point being the scratches now make it easier for me to get the wavier signed.
I won’t work without a waiver but truth be told as a customer I hate them. I had my king-size bed delivered a few months back. I bought the extra warranty but when they came to deliver it I would have to sign a waiver voiding it all because of a slight bend they would have to make getting it up the stairs. I understood they needed to cover themselves but I have a 10 year warr. gonna go up in smoke. I told them just to leave it downstairs to complete delivery, but they said they couldn’t because they knew I would just move it. SO… I talked to the manager and here’s what he did. They had to drive it 45 min back to the store and the next week they scheduled a “drop-off” delivery drove it 45 minutes back and left it right where it was and I didn’t have to sign anything. Beds fine upstairs, and I still have my warranty.
Very Long story short: People want accountability, and they think that if they sign these waivers that you’ll take no care whatsoever cause your arse is off the hook. Assure them that you’ll take every care possible and you’ll let them know right away of any problems that arise and most of the time they’ll sign.
Grab your Autobots and “ROLLOUT” on the ones that don’t.
