Again not dodging the question Brother, I’m not a residential guy and light commercial for me doesn’t exist.
Plus my opinion is just that, just and opinion on what’s needed.
A true Certification process needs a committee from with in and outside party’s to insure that its proper. Validity would be first and foremost in my opinion.
In other org they believe that testing is only held by association and contractors are referred for training. Some if you pass the test your certified, others need reference experience and on the job training.
These are all important aspects to smarter commercial consumers.
I do not think the average residential customer does care. Unless a competitors makes them, then he may or may not have and edge.
I see it happening sooner than we might think, but I’m not for mandatory government BS standards.
I think anyone should start with a simple awareness that there’s a group like WCRA raising the standard. Actually setting the standards. ( in theory)
Because Chris and Alex stated they will never have one.
When I saw your reply I thought I’d better reread my post. I can see that I didn’t convey my tongue in cheek intentions by my wording. Please be assured that I don’t really think I deserve every good account to be had in my region and that anyone who comes across less impressively than I is a weed. It’s more a bit of envy or wanting to kick myself that someone else got an account I walk by all the time and would like to have myself. And yes, I started with $20 of equipment, dressed very presentably, well-groomed in a VW Beetle, but certainly not screaming seasoned professional. What I will hold my ground on and didn’t actually mention in post #33 is that some companies I see around truly have no excuse to look the way they do and work the way they do. I see others that are up in years moving slowly, not using hucks or scrims, safety cones, etc. who are doing a fine, albeit slow and low cost service on some larger storefronts. I don’t have a prob. with that or the young guy who’s had a bad life and is trying to make good. So as not to run this thread off the rails, I don’t expect these honest, not overly professional looking companies to shell out the cost of certification. But yet if there can ever be developed a valid, meaningful system to up my real credibility, of course I’m in and I will use it to the full when I feel it’s appropriate.
I do some work at Federal and State Properties and some private super high security sites. The only kind of certification they care about are the Real ID security checks and the current background checks (one requires FBI checks every 6 months) they require for anyone to be present on their properties.
The basic issue I have with certifications is that unless they mean something, they are worthless. I’ll give you an example…Tax preparers.
If you take your taxes to a CPA to be filed, you know your CPA had to pass a 3 part national exam to be certified. All CPA’s, attorneys and Enrolled Agents (people who can represent taxpayers in front of the IRS) have to pass the same 3 part exam. Starting in 2013, If you take your taxes to a service like H&R Block, Jackson Hewitt, or any other paid tax preparer (those with a PTIN number), They must have passed part 1 of a national exam to do simple returns like EZ’s and some 1040 A’s. They must pass a part 2 in order to do small business, investments and other items found on Schdules C,D,E and F.
These are nationally prepared exams that will hold the preparers to a standard of ability and competence.
How are you going to do that with window cleaners?
Read the OSHA regs over the last 25 years and you can see where influence peddling from the scaffold, swing stage and ladder lobbies get the ears of bureaucrats and design standards that benefit [I]their industries[/I]. I can remember talking to Fitch back in the late '80s and the 90’s about all the BS he had to fight for years when he was selling the mule, horse and counterweight baskets (which I still use) I can remember when OSHA was trying to ban the botswain’s chair.
The task will be to take the competing interests and put together a national standard which can be applied evenly and fairly across the the US without adding more burdensome and expensive rules and regs to our businesses. I have seen how the big dogs in any industry try to raise the barrier to entry to keep others from getting into the business through the guise of “environment and safety.” They rig the game to make it too expensive or too elite to go after the profitable areas they want to keep for themselves and leave the rest to kill each other over storefront and route work.
I have watched the pressure and carpet cleaning business in Florida get choked on regulations and expense. Recapture systems, special berms and dams to keep runoff out of the storm systems and the effluent being classified as toxic waste. It won’t be long until you will be required to roll up with $100K in equipment to do a customer’s driveway, let alone a shopping center, mall or parking structures. All the small operators will get pushed out and there will be 3 or 4 mega companies gobbling up all the prime accounts in the state or region…much like the National Service Providers are doing to window cleaning and janitor services now. Not the future I am looking forward to
Your last paragraph is the reason we need someone like WCRA to step up and keep this from happening to window cleaners.
To work security levels I have to put all employee through the training for homeland security. ( this was for public Transportation Contracts) Airforce base didn’t give two SHIZTS
Dept of economic security required a list of policy that could be on a cert.
That also just made me think of another, immigration. Companies and governments have depts for this now when hiring.
Its very possible to hire a company that could check status and be used by only cleaner that want to set themselves apart. Optional
I disagree, the last paragrah is exactly why we don’t. Who are going to be the people who sit down and write this program?
It will be the big dogs. It will be people whose credentials will be judged by the size of their sales, many of whom haven’t held a squeegee in years, if ever. It will be chest deep in politics while the big dogs create the niches for themselves, and try to shut the door behind them so others don’t get into their “club.” It will be people who are more interested in money than the safety of the ladder monkeys.
There will be little parts in the requirements where only the biggest companies can actually provide the services required because the little guys can’t afford the equipment or the insurance. Back in the 90’s I specialized in 3 to 5 story buildings. They were too tall for the little guys and not enough money for the big dogs to mess with. I didn’t have anyone “certified” for rope work. I paid some consultants (Bill Fitch being one) to come in and we designed a set of equipment and safety protocols. In 10 years, no falls, no injuries from those buildings, and we were doing 2 to 3 per week.
Now I just have a small mom and pop window cleaning outfit, which is what we want, but no one will ask me to be a part of any certification committee, even though I have literally hundreds of hours rigging buildings, sitting in boatswain’s chairs and pushing rollers across roofs. I’ll bet I have as many hours as anyone on this forum rigging, cleaning and repelling.
So, tell me, where are the Experts going to come from who are going to determine the future of window cleaning, from the solo or small outfits, or the multimillion dollar operations?
Let’s keep this on topic. WCRA was not mentioned in Chris’ question. It was a general question about certifications. It was posted in the general area, not the WCRA area. WCRA was not mentioned until post post #16.
This cannot be alowed to cause divisions between WCRA members and the rest of the guys on WCR. Please leave WCRA out of it.
There are two groups here? I just thought we are one big happy family.
I look at wcra for new guys. If wcra doesn’t have advance training and continued education they are just that.
Division is only in the eye of the beholder.
I look at social networking to learn from others and lend a hand when able.
You trying to make this it’s about wcra & wcr is ridiculous. We are all just service business people sharing ideas. Building better business for our family’s.
You as a staff member should lighten up. Have some fun and don’t take this little bbs chatter to heart.
Just maybe the members here want wcra to be involved thus Chris should here what the members want. You one in this vote and the other two people you called on the phone.
Ron Musgraves text me for questions 480-522-5227 Pressure Washing Institute
No one here wants a great safety program with good manual to reduce liabilities as there company grows. That’s why if you renu today Chris is providing you with that free!!
It’s already here in a sense, it’s just not being marketed.
Chris is slick!!!
Ron Musgraves text me for questions 480-522-5227 Pressure Washing Institute
High-Rise Window Washer
Salary: $28,770
Training: High-rise window washers usually need certification. For International Window Cleaning Association certification, the aspiring window washer must take four correspondence exams, specializing in commercial ground-based window cleaning, rope descent systems, and suspended scaffolds. American high-rise washers need specific training in regional standards.
Cleanliness is next to godliness, they say. But when cleaning the 102nd floor windows of the Empire State Building, you are actually next to God. Combining the detail-focus of a custodian with the fearlessness of a circus acrobat, high-rise window washers waltz daily with death to keep our skyscrapers agleam. Peering into all those offices might reveal some pretty scary stuff too.
The last sentence lighten the mood!!
It’s no joke for sure, I would not write that one solo!!!
Is wcr selling high-rise gear? Do the manufactures have training course outlines? Just curious
Ron Musgraves text me for questions 480-522-5227 Pressure Washing Institute
Ron, I have tried to explain the difference between WCR and the WCRA to you ever since Chris started the WCRA. I still don’t think you got it.
I know how much you love orgs but it isn’t that kind of org.
Oh, and there aren’t any votes and I didn’t call anybody.
Lol
