Risk takers

These are some photos I took of some guys installing phone stuff on top of a 10 story building in downtown Seattle…

If you notice on the yellow ladder these guy have tied on another ladder to the top of it with a rope. No one is at the base holding it, and the base is about 4 to 5 feet from the roofs edge !

We are talking here about absolute DANGER and these guys don’t even seem to be nervous ! Ladder safety is a key element in our industry and application is so very necessary for life and limb !

I hope yawl here always think things threw and we all work safe !

Dangerous Dave

Good reminder Dange! Be safe out there!

It could be a 3 section extension ladder, and there’s a parapet, so the ladder’s not going to just slide off the edge of the building.

Looks like they’re wearing harnesses; they could be tied off. I’m not a high rise guy tho, and the picture is too blurry.

Let’s see …I took the pictures from across the street…And the ladders are Fiberglass ladders…one is yellow and one is red…No they are not 3 section ladders they are TWO seperate ladders TIED TOGETHER with a rope…No they are not wearing harnesses, what you see them wearing is a work belts with suspenders …It don’t matter if there is a parapet, it’s not about the bottom sliding…if the ladders were to brake apart they still will go over the edge !

We don’t need to be hi-rise guys to think safe…

They are working dangerously and the purpose of this thread is to show yawl that there are people who are being wreak-less ! We can be wreak-less also and we need to THINK…

Dange

looks hairy ! i notice the ladders look as though the angle is far too steep-i believe its meant to be 1 measure out from the building to 4 high . the silver ladder in particular could easily slide sideaways at the angle its set ,looks like 1 in 8 !

Not sure that there is any other way to service that any other way. What other way would you do it Dange?

Wow, I have been on ladders all my working years and that made my stomach whirl. I have had a few “pucker” moments on ladders but I have never actually taken the big fall. (knock on wood) That set up would be a “pucker” all the way up and “pucker” all the way down.

Good Day To you Mr. Winder

In response to your question…

[COLOR=“red”]#1 -[/COLOR] To tie 2 separate ladders together is something I would not even think of doing, unless I was stuck in a hole that had “lions and tigers and bears in there” with me.

Would anyone here consider doing this at all ? This ladder application is something that can cause a business major liability even if you have insurance because the insurance would not cover you under these circumstances !

It can easily fail and end a persons life or cause them to be served to their family as a Veggie ! A person in a vegetable state can last many years in a hospice and your children who are young can still be coming to visit you when they enter adulthood !

Not only being dead or a veggie, but a quad or paraplegic !

Also they are putting the property owner at risk for liability !

Mr. Winder would you want your workers to tie two ladders together to clean someones home, or a commercial account?

This is a given, anyone thinking differently needs to re-adjust their thought pattern in the practice of ladder work !

[COLOR=“red”]#2 -[/COLOR] Next the taller ladder is there, then that means that one just like it could of been there, if not why not ?

Because they are independent contractor installing this phone stuff and sometimes independent contractor do things things like this because they are cutting corners, because they aren’t supplied with all the right tools, and they’re trying to earn revenue at its highest percentage…

One point for those here on the forum who sub-contract, be sure your subcontractor know their job and are properly equipped and trained to go and do your job. If they aren’t and do something like this your insurance will negate your policy and you will be holding the cat in the bag ! Or your customer will not have you back…This is a given !

Also those who you hired as subs may die or be seriously injured and if you knew what they were doing and didn’t correct them or remove them from the job or jobs it will cost them their lives and limb. How would you feel about that !

There is no reason they could not of had a different and proper ladder there to do what they are doing, this only show they are WRECK-LESS AND DANGEROUS ! And for anyone to think differently or not see the major mistake here needs to re-adjust their though process !

[COLOR=“red”]#3 -[/COLOR] If I were on the roof doing this kind of ladder work I would surely have the right ladders…Also in this situation the base needs to be secured or have a co-worker at the base holding it. Also here in this situation the top needs to be secured so it won’t slide,THAT’S AN OSHA STANDARD, and if osha saw this they all would of (property owner,business owner ,and all the workers) been given a fine !

The reason why these guys don’t in my understanding is they are independent contractor and to utilize a man to hold the ladder makes that manpower not in the building process to get the job done.

Now mind you not all independents will work like this ,I was once independent and I never did this nor took risks like this (being a “SON OF ETTORE”) ! Be sure you hire independents who are professional and qualified and safety concise ! Also you need to go out to the job periodically to be sure they aren’t skipping windows or that they aren’t working unsafely, this should be STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE ! If it is not, why not ?

[COLOR=“red”]#4 -[/COLOR] Yes they should be tied off to the top of the roof above the ladders here, in this situation ! We are talking about safety here and the lives of human beings, Fathers, Husbands, Brothers, Sons, Friends, Employees, Neighbors…

They are working 6’ from the edge of the roof on two ladders tied together by a rope, at the top of a 10 story building in a metropolitan city in the downtown core…If they were to have an accident and all their equipment and their ladders and themselves were to go over the edge they would land on the people walking on the street below,just coming and going doing their everyday lives not expecting to be smothered and killed by unsafe worker and unsafe working procedures !

On the street right below them there is a restaurant with tables and chairs on the street right below where these guy are dangerously working ! I’ve cleaned the building across the street for 30 years and I’m on the 12th floors taking these picture. I know this place and what is going on there. Life is in big way moving about down on the street !

When ever I’m cleaning the outside windows of the building that I’m cleaning here, my tools are tied off to me so if I drop one it won’t fall to the ground and maybe kill or injure a, Mother, Father, Son, Daughter, Brother, Sister, Friend !!!

My purpose with thread is to show how people can work dangerously and foolishly, which at times anyone can do. We need to think things through. My purpose here was to not write a long diatribe, but I’ve been ask a question so I answered it with a very simple answer that should be a given…Buuuuuuuut… !

So Mr. Winder iif I were to answer the question in only one sentence instead of a long discourse…

[COLOR=“red”] What other way would you do it Dange?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=“navy”][SIZE=“3”]I would work SAFELY, and not dangerously risking mine and other peoples lives ![/SIZE][/COLOR]

DANGEROUS [SIZE=“7”]COLOR=“red”[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Dave,

Will you be suppling your photos to those in charge at that building as well as osha?

Great post, Dange!

Ladders are both too close to the building.
At the very least, I think they should have longer ladders so they can place them farther from the building.
They should also have ladder stoppers under the ladders’ feet, imo.

I can’t believe they risk their lives by circumventing the ladders design.
Four people, four brains, but no sense!

Most of their work is by the top, could they use the door on the roof for access and drop down with boatswains’s chairs?
Beam me up, Scottie, LOL…
vic

This particular thing happen about 3 years ago and no I didn’t throw them under the bus, but I should have…I did point it out to the CEO at the building I was working in !

Buuuuut, I now know that I should of, or at least have gone across the street to point it out to the property owner…I didn’t ! I guess that would of made me an accomplice or something…I thought about it after it happen and decided to start taking a more hands on approach to things I encounter…But at that time I dropped the ball !

You know I thought about that after, I didn’t do that and but I did begin to call people when I saw there workers screwing up.

But thanks for pointing that out to this mistake maker, from now on I will call wisha or the property owner, which I already decided to do, Great point though !

We all should do this even if we are looked upon as tattlers…Who cares ? We should !

Once across the street after this ladder thing I saw a cleaner repelling down a 30 story building in 3 drops and in the last drop it was about 10 stories, when he stopped he slammed into the window. So I called his employer right away when it happen and told him how he was screwing around with his repelling device to have fun ! The employer said he’d call them …A half hour later the worker across the street flipped me off when he saw me across the street in the window !

Another time after the ladder thing on the opposite corner at the Sheraton where those guys got stuck in there swing stage YouTube - Window washers rescued , I saw a cleaner on a chair who was descending down over the side walk at a lower mazenine level, dropping down to a light pole and using it to stand on to help pull himself away from a glass awning so he can drop past it, and he got stuck but then unstuck himself which caused him to suddenly drop about two feet with out control of his device !

He was able to get control again, But I called his boss and told him what was going on there and that the supervisor wasn’t supervising ! He said Thanks, and would get hold of them !

Another time on the third corner there were some cleaners on a 35 story building that were stuck in their swing stage at the 2Nd floor level and they couldn’t descend any farther and as I watched them after about a 1/2 hour I figured out that they were stuck and unable to drop.

They were in an area where there were no pedestrians but they could of called out for help but they didn’t and one tried to slide down his safety line but couldn’t so he got back in the cage.

At this point I realized what was going on and I went downstairs and across the street and told the security guard what was happening and then the property maintance people brought a ladder out and got them down !

Another time on the same building that the guy repelled in 3 drops. There were two W/C ascending in a swing stage and their cable wasn’t rolling up on the spool, and just hanging down about 8 floors when I saw it…I started to scream across the street because they were at the same level as me, and they kept looking around to see who was calling them, Then they saw me, and with hand signals I was able to point out the cable which could of cause their stage to slide down onto one side and cause them to be hanging from one cable !

But Steve your point is a very good one and I should of done that when it happen.

My screw up !
Dange / You’ve put into Range

[SIZE=“3”][COLOR=“navy”]Yo My Fellow Pacific Northwesterner and WCRU Northwest members…[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Nate…even though I work safely, whenever I talk about this stuff to others, I also say…

[SIZE=“5”][COLOR=“navy”]" KNOCK ON WOOD "…[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Your right Vic-ster they should have a ladder stopper or a person holding the ladder !
Yes there is a trap door at the top and I have seen another installer doing that work there in a chair, way before these guys !

Dangerous Dave

There are guys like that working in almost every industry, trying to get the job done cheaply without the proper equipment. It’s hard to blame the workers as they are probably making do with what they were given, The onus of responsibility should fall on the company owner and/or the building who hired them because they were cheap

Hey Pat…

Oh, you are so right Pat about employers doing that to their workers, and causing them to risk their lives. Not suppling them with proper equipment nor replacing old broke or near broken equipment…Yes you are right !

I can see worker not quiting nor stopping such behavior because they are concerned about their jobs and or losing them !

Even though whenever I get into a situation like that I’ll correct it ! I won’t cause co-worker to risk their lives and I can give you at least 10 stories right off the top of my head ! But I’ll just give yawl one !

One employer I had, had a 28’ ladder that was absolutely loose in all the rungs and the rails. When you’d go up it it would sway all over the place, mainly side ways ! I refused to use that ladder and there was no way was I going to take it to another job for a co-worker on my truck to use ! NO WAY…

So your right Pat the onus is on the employer to see that their worker are safely maintained… But it also up to each individual to protect his own life and the lives of others around him ! It’s a two way street and we all are as individuals responsible for our own actions !

Your right Pat, companies need to take care of their workers, if they don’t then don’t work for them ! It’s the worker that in the end generate the revenue so if the company don’t take care of them then they should leave that company !

Dange

Whoa there partner! I see why I got yer tail feathers in a ruffle there cowboy (My best Dange impression). Seriously though, I returned to see what you wrote and I missed what you were referring to as far as two ladders tied together. I thought you meant that the ladders were tied side by side (which I still couldnt see that either). After reviewing your photos, I finally saw that they have a a ladder attached to the other one on the top. Now thats just total stupidity at its finest! I see your point now!

Steve

Yo Mr. Steve…

I thought maybe since you were a company owner that you could understand the pictures, but I was only going by your question and…I’m glad you came back to correct what you said because I truly belive you to be an honorable member here and a true working class owner.

I apologize if you seemed to be made irreverent by me… But thanks for seeing the stupidity of this. Karls talking to me about putting these on his blog and I said OK !

Now to answer your updated post, yes they should be tied off to the roof to keep them from sliding, and not just to each other, and that’s if they are both the proper ladders, they’re just being lazy minded and wreck-less…

Mr. Winderwarsher are you going to agree with me now about…[SIZE=“1”]TSP,TSP,TSP,TSP,oh yeah[/SIZE]LOL

We all need to be safe in this industry !

The Dange-Man

PS…I’m only a Dange so I guess I better ramp down…Right Dan !

In a similar situation, I have tied rope to a ladder, lowered it over the side and then climbed down the ladder to get to the work area. I guess the 80’s were a wild and reckless time…

I went through this kind of bs with my old employer. in our safety meetings they told us to never do what we were always made to do.
so you know what we started doing? refused to do the work until they got us the proper stuff.

you know what happens if those guys got hurt don’t you? they’ll get fired and the boss will say they didn’t tell those guys to do that.
it’s up to the workers even if the company doesn’t give them the proper tools.
to this day, I will straight up tell any employer that I’m not doing something unless I have the proper equipment.

How were you able to position the feet safely, securely, and at the proper 4:1 ratio with a ladder extended to that length?

[SIZE=“3”][COLOR=“navy”]MY OH MY …[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Hey B-man…

You know in my early days I’ve taken risk that go beyond sensibility… Today I look back and just shake my head and just think " man what a foolish thing’ !

You know even when we are working safely we are in danger of an accident, things can happen just like what we read on Robinsons Solutions when that window cleaner brother fell when the ladder rung broke on a newer ladder.

It’s for the life and limb of cleaners that I push safety here. The lives of cleaners is way more important then a clean window.

Mr. B when you say you lowered the ladder with a rope were you saying it was hanging free tied back with a rope, freely hanging when you went down it ?

You Friend The Dange

Sometimes I need to pull a ladder up to a deck, a low angle roof, or a flat roof. When I put it back down to the ground, I just walk the bottom out with the top of the rails…
By years of " IN THE FIELD EXPERIENCE " I’m able to decern where the base needs to be.

After the base is where I need it I stand the ladder away from the building and let it lay back to the building to see if it lines up right. If it don’t then I re-adjust the base with the top rails again until the ladder lays right against the building.Part of the process of being a “SON OF ETTORE”!

One with Mucho Range / The Dange