All you non-WFP guys

PaulMansfield · February 10, 2013, 12:56am

Are you cleaning the screen from the ladder?

advantage202 · February 10, 2013, 1:04am

It’s not quicker… Until you learn to use it correctly. Then it’s much faster and most of the time more effective. I could go on and on about the savings we have in time and perfect results were left for the clients… But no need. No offense, but if you don’t believe then there you have it.

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Dream · February 10, 2013, 2:18am

wfp is waaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy faster and easier then traditional. I use wfp as much as possible.

no need to worry about streaks
no need for detailing
no problem in direct sunlight

wanna know what im talking about?

white scrubber in left hand
modified tbar with two water jets attached to backpack pump

Infinity · February 10, 2013, 6:49am

Must see this setup!

BrianHSauls · February 10, 2013, 7:22am

Our setup is van mounted. One hose out the van to the hose bib. Then the WFP hose comes off a reel around the house. We have old WFP converted to hold a razor and scrub pad. So you scrub or razor with one pole and wash with the other if needed. One guy inside pulls screens and cleans glass then goes back and checks glass with client before re-installing screens. I live in one of the most high income markets in the country. If it wasn’t effective then we wouldn’t be continually growing. You can’t teach an old dog new tricks.

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whatapane · February 10, 2013, 8:07am

Why are you assuming I am not using it correctly?

whatapane · February 10, 2013, 8:12am

I don’t have to worry about these either and the fact that you think there an issue with traditional tells me your traditional skills are not that good.

whatapane · February 10, 2013, 8:17am

I never said you can’t do it with a wfp. I said I don’t feel that it’s faster, if you are good with traditional methods. If you don’t feel you can teach an old dog new tricks then whats the point of a thread like this?

BrianHSauls · February 10, 2013, 8:36am

I didn’t start the thread. And I am not trying to teach anyone anything, just posting our methods. Guys that love traditional are not going to change their minds and vice versa. I could care less how you clean windows. I do know it is IMPOSSIBLE no matter how fast you are with a squeegee and ladder to be faster than my guys and WFP with the types of multi-milllion dollar custom homes we work on daily. We do not have tract housing here. It is all super luxury and no two houses are the same. I think [MENTION=3418]michaelmole[/MENTION] would concur with this.

advantage202 · February 10, 2013, 9:00am

whatapane:

I have to agree with rivet0r. After about 15 years of traditional cleaning, I was all for using a waterfed pole and was so excited until the first job I used it on. It wasnt as easy as everyone makes it out to be. I kept trying it on different jobs until I was just losing more time on the jobs I used it on. Most of the time I would have been done in half the time if i would have just done the job the traditional way. I think the problem for me is I have gotten to good at the traditional method and can produce alot of work, so a waterfed pole does not shave off enough time om most jobs to make it worth spending the extra time setting it up.

Like Michael’s job. It’s not unusual for me to cut my time in half on return jobs at all. My question would be how long had it been since you cleaned it the first time?

The 2 biggest issues I have with the WFP is hydrophobic glass and rinse time, and first time cleans. First time cleans Are not going to yield as good of results in the same time frame as traditional (traditional will be quicker and most the time better if the cleaner knows what he is doing). with return jobs I can clean most jobs just as fast the traditional way and without the extra set up time. Not all but most.

With hydrophobic glass according to the expert videos I have seen they recommend rinsing every square inch of glass which takes forever compared to using a large squeegee with two pulls down the glass. And now a days every other window or job has hydrophobic glass so you risk set up time just to find out that if you had just grabbed your squeegee bucket and pole the job would have been done in half the time.

I do agree though that there are jobs that the WFP is invaluable on, but for me those jobs are few and far between.

And as for the whole claim that pure water is a super cleaning agent, with no offense to anyone individual, is a load of bologna! It sucks compared to scrubbing with soap! I have ran across tons of jobs where I had to put the WFP away and swicth to soap and squeegee because the water alone was not cleaning the glass, and the soap took it right off with one pass!

I have nothing against WFP’s. I wish that they worked as good as people claim, because if they did I would switch in a heart beat. But I have just not found that to be the case, and I have watched tons of video’s and tried the tricks that just seemed to just waist my time. I can’t help but feel like maybe the guys who think WFP’s are so much better just were not as skilled with the traditional methods. I don’t mean that as an insult in anyway. I’m not saying they weren’t good but that mybe they just had not croosed that threshhold into greatness where you start to produce amazing amounts of work. For me I thought I was a decent window cleaner after 8-10 years of full time work. Out of necessity I was forced to produce more and I found once you break past a certain barrier you jump up quite a bit in the ammount you can produce in a day. The last five years I have been amazed at how efficient I have become, and I was already pretty efficient. I’m in no way boasting, but rather just sharing my experience as to why I have not found WFP’s to be faster or more effective on most jobs. And I would love to be wrong! believe me! Why would I turned down the increase in productivity? No way!

This is why it seems you may not be using wfp methods quite right. Not trying to put you down nor traditional methods. I was a decade in window cleaning full time before I picked up WFP, I felt as you did many times. My wife thought I threw 5k out the window! lol
But I forced myself to learn how to use it effectively and it was worth the sacrifice of time on jobs back then. Because now We can slam out jobs way way faster then we ever could. And yes, I can sling a squeegee fast. I used to time each window on ladder work just to see how efficient I could be. Those jobs have been cut 50% and some more.

And as far as set up time, your right at times not worth it. So I adapted, made a trailer set up with a tank and 12v 2gpm pump. Now even on smaller jobs where it wasn’t worth a 15 min. Set up and 15 min tear down are turned into wfp dreams.

But you also made a comment to try to convince you that you were wrong if we felt that to be the case. Well, then that opens up a lot of comments from us who disagree.
Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to help a fellow window cleaner out. No offense only respect intended.

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whatapane · February 10, 2013, 9:07am

I don’t care how you clean windows either but I’m not the one posting a thread smarting off to guys who don’t use WFP’s and you aren’t either but your comment that you can’t teach an old dog new tricks seemed a bit on the smart side too. Maybe I misread your intent. I’m not looking to insult guys on here who use wfp’s but I don’t think it’s right to disrespect guys who don’t feel using wfp’s are faster or better.

And yes I agree I would not be faster than your guys. But put me up against one of your guys and I guarantee you would not be so confident. The reason you can’t teach an old dog new tricks is because he is not impressed with your tricks!

BrianHSauls · February 10, 2013, 9:21am

Yes I agree that a 10 year vet may give my guy with 6 months training a run for their money.That is kind of the selling point right there. 10 years vs a few months training. That is what it comes down to for me. Safer and faster to train and get awesome results for my employees. I am not knocking anyone, just stating without the WFP we would not be as efficient.

whatapane · February 10, 2013, 9:23am

advantage202:

This is why it seems you may not be using wfp methods quite right. Not trying to put you down nor traditional methods. I was a decade in window cleaning full time before I picked up WFP, I felt as you did many times. My wife thought I threw 5k out the window! lol
But I forced myself to learn how to use it effectively and it was worth the sacrifice of time on jobs back then. Because now We can slam out jobs way way faster then we ever could. And yes, I can sling a squeegee fast. I used to time each window on ladder work just to see how efficient I could be. Those jobs have been cut 50% and some more.

And as far as set up time, your right at times not worth it. So I adapted, made a trailer set up with a tank and 12v 2gpm pump. Now even on smaller jobs where it wasn’t worth a 15 min. Set up and 15 min tear down are turned into wfp dreams.

But you also made a comment to try to convince you that you were wrong if we felt that to be the case. Well, then that opens up a lot of comments from us who disagree.
Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to help a fellow window cleaner out. No offense only respect intended.

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I appreciate your comments Jeremiah. No disagreements don’t bother me at all. What irritates me is the arrogance. I’m not saying you, but more the thread post and some of the comments of a few guys, not going to name names. I don’t mind at all a discussion on WFP vs traditional. I welcome it. If I could cut my job times in half I would be making at times over $2500.00 a day. I’m not about to turn that down.

The main beef I have with this thread is that some of the wfp guys seemed to assume there traditional skills are the same as other guys who don’t feel wfps are that great. you make it out like your going to cut your time in half and I just don’t see that. And if that was the case then why don’t I see threads talking about how much net you are pulling in.

If I could cut my time in half I would be netting $200,000.00 a year as a owner operator. And if it’s as you say then when I have employees I would be netting over $100,000.00 off each guy. So is this what you are telling me?

Again I welcome your comments. If I can shave more off my job times I’m all for it but I just haven’t seen it yet. I do use the wfp on certain jobs and for those jobs it does great but other jobs i can do way faster with traditional methods. For me the proof is in the net in the end.

whatapane · February 10, 2013, 9:28am

This is not meant to be an aggressive comment but isn’t that kind of a contradiction. You say it only takes a few months to train your guy to use a wfp but then you tell me I have not been using it enough. If it’s that easy to pick up then as a 15 year window cleaning vet It shouldn’t take me any time at all. Not trying to be a jerk it just seems to contradict. Keep in mind I have watched tons of videos to pick up tips on wpf use to try and break past the “curve” but just did not see a pay off.

advantage202 · February 10, 2013, 10:56am

whatapane:

I appreciate your comments Jeremiah. No disagreements don’t bother me at all. What irritates me is the arrogance. I’m not saying you, but more the thread post and some of the comments of a few guys, not going to name names. I don’t mind at all a discussion on WFP vs traditional. I welcome it. If I could cut my job times in half I would be making at times over $2500.00 a day. I’m not about to turn that down.

The main beef I have with this thread is that some of the wfp guys seemed to assume there traditional skills are the same as other guys who don’t feel wfps are that great. you make it out like your going to cut your time in half and I just don’t see that. And if that was the case then why don’t I see threads talking about how much net you are pulling in.

If I could cut my time in half I would be netting $200,000.00 a year as a owner operator. And if it’s as you say then when I have employees I would be netting over $100,000.00 off each guy. So is this what you are telling me?

Again I welcome your comments. If I can shave more off my job times I’m all for it but I just haven’t seen it yet. I do use the wfp on certain jobs and for those jobs it does great but other jobs i can do way faster with traditional methods. For me the proof is in the net in the end.

I appreciate that. And I too welcome comments and understand a little better where you are coming from. As far as bragging about net worth, I personally don’t like such threads and will never start one. I also know having employees I can’t count on them to be as quick as me, I prefer efficiency and quality. Is every job cut in half? No way. Is it safer for me and my employees? Absolutely. Are there jobs we have found it best not to use it on, why yes. There are also jobs I thought where too hydrophobic but after trying other methods have found it works great on many of those too.
I have found in time employees become quick at both methods but cannot expect a clone of myself and hopefully never will. However a real window cleaner is going to not just look at the fastest way to get a job done but leave the best result for the client. Obviously that is your goal and I sincerely respect that and your opinions. I have had quite a different experience using wfp, much trial and error along with frustration. But have become very satisfied and happy with the outcome.

I do agree, if some are putting down traditional they have a lot to learn. I for one am very glad I busted my rear using only traditional methods on my two and three story ladder jobs for the first decade. It helps me maintain the respect traditional methods deserve, and in the same light appreciate the advancement of WFP work.

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michaelmole · February 10, 2013, 3:30pm

[QUOTE=whatapane;227437What irritates me is the arrogance. I’m not saying you, but more the thread…

The main beef I have with this thread…[/QUOTE]

If you don’t like the thread, then don’t read it. Come on man. You’ve made up your mind. We get it. You say “prove it to me” but you argue everyone into the ground and call them arrogant if they disagree with you or TRY to prove anything.

The thread isn’t really for you. It’s for guys who are considering WFP, so that they’ll see that there are many, MANY guys getting better results in a shorter time period with WFP than with traditional, without putting themselves or their employees in harm’s way on a ladder.

Again, I don’t have a problem with disagreement, and I am glad you’re so awesome at traditional ladder-up window cleaning. You do whatever you want to.

CAS · February 10, 2013, 3:56pm

Have you ever seen a house being framed? The carpenters have these crazy contraptions called nail guns hooked up to a airhose they can nail so fast.

What’s weirder yet is they wear a nail bag with this odd thing called a hammer attached to it. They even use it while having the nail gun.

Weird…

I think you guys get my point.

To be dogmatic either way is silly, I use both. Both have some limitations that the other tool makes up for. Imho

mrwindow · February 10, 2013, 4:00pm

Heard someone went as far as slapp’n a GoPro on the end of one as well …
Btw, I have both a flip phone and a Reach-It so what’s your point

whatapane · February 10, 2013, 4:22pm

If the thread isn’t really for me then don’t address it to me. Your original post seemed more like you just wanted to smack talk guys who don"t think wfp’s are faster then traditional just because you did one job where you cut your time almost in half on a return trip. Big deal! I do that all the time with traditional methods. Your approach is just very arrogant. You were the one looking for an argument and now that you have one you want to call foul and tell me not to read the post. You’ve yet to even make your case. I’m not arguing my point any more than you. My opinion just happens to disagree with yours and you are the one making an issue out of that by attacking my position with this thread. All I am doing is just defending my position, just like you, only I’m not the one starting the argument just remember that.

I was doing whatever I want to when I ran across your thread insulting me doing just that. If you don’t care then why did you post the thread and direct it at me? I don’t mind agreeing with a good point when I feel one has been made, but I have not heard the evidence I need change my mind yet so I will continue to defend my position with an open mind. If that offends you then take your own advice and don’t read my comments.

Ladders are not unsafe if you use them properly so for me that’s not even an issue.

So your telling me you produce $8000.00-$2500.00 a day, consistently averaging over $1000.00 a day by yourself with a WFP? you can’t base it on one job, or even a handful of jobs. We all have jobs like that traditional or not. Just to be clear I am a guy who is open minded about the benefits of water fed pole use. I just have not seen the claims yet, but I continue to try other peoples tips. But I am certainly not going to take someone popping off and being up in my face about it! Nor am I going to pop off to wpf users posting a comment saying did all you wfp guys pay off the second mortgage on your wfp yet? and boast about how I do just as much work with traditional methods without going in the hole for thousands of dollars. I wouldn’t do that because that would be arrogant and presumptuous on my part. try a different approach and you will find that I am the guy you are trying to talk to. I would love to find that I am wrong. It would mean great things for me and my family which is why I do what I do. I don’t care about how the work gets done I just that I can make an honest living for me and my family. I just don’t feel like being insulted.

Pepsifrozen · February 10, 2013, 4:43pm

There are guys like me that are just getting started. Given the advances in technology, many of us are far behind. We all want to learn as much as we can, get better, and continue to grow. Many of us come to threads like this in an attempt to gain a little more information. Some of us may want to try new things and some may not, but it’s the interaction and picking the brains of the guys with years of experience that help us the most. When threads get like this, it may actually discourage new guys like myself from even actually asking for help. When it gets like this, it’s like a Chevy guy arguing with a Ford guy about what type of truck that he should drive. It’s to each his own. Just my $0.02 guys…

Clean windows are not cheap,
And cheap windows are not clean…