Continuing the discussion from Weird issue today:
What is the primary active ingredient in GG4?
This question is sincere because I’m interested in knowing exactly what detergent GG4 uses. I looked at their MSDS but this is what I found:
3 COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Page 3 of 8
Cas # | Percentage | Chemical Name
N/A | 80-89% | Proprietary, non-hazardous, non-regulated
68439-46-3 | 10-15% | Alcohols, C9-11, ethoxylated
68130-47-2 | 1-5% |
They don’t reveal what it is, so there’s no way of knowing if it is Anionic, Nonionic, Amphoteric or Cationic, which is key in knowing exactly how and why it works. For my personal satisfaction…
as you say 80-90%is proprietary and non hazardous so it could be snake oil or…alien technology!!
my understanding from talking to them is that they are not using surfactants and that surfactants are the problem. and if they were they would have to list them on the sds as dawn does with its Amine oxides, C10-16-alkyldimethyl.
it could be something as simple as an essential oil they wouldn’t tell me of course.
then again c9-c11 alcohols are categorized as emusifiers/surfactants so maybe i am not understanding the difference properly.
even though i obviosly don’t fully understand it, it does make sense to me so i will be trying it.
if i find out more i will update you here.
Thanks man! Ive been using it w its glide but adding about 2 tbsp ecover (UK) because I just dont like zero suds.
So Id like to know for sure if i am negating the GG4 properties…
But how to know if we dont know what it’s made of? Ah, the world.
i’m gonna ask him about ecover because it’s ingredients are different from dawn.
I’ve hade some email conversation with Alan at Titan Labs for some month ago after reading some posts here about GG3/GG4. Because I’ve been using it also with a little adding of soap.
But Alan tells me that if you do so the purpose with GG3 become meaningless.
Here is a quote from the email:
“If you use surfactants (like dishsoap) then you’ll introduce two films that will stubbornly keep the window from being truly clean. The first film is made from the surfactant blend itself (think: “squeaky clean”), the second is from the sodium laureth sulfate that dishsoap makers use to produce lather. They’ll work together to make film similar to plastic that gets into the pores of the glass and prevent the sun from sparkling off the surface.”
After that I’ve tried use GG3 (we have soft water here) without no dish soap, but I think then the slip is decreasing so much that I’m spending more time at every window to finish it.
I’ve started to go back to just regular soap.
I lost a paranoid customer once because I couldn’t give/find a full “ingredient” or chemical list for GG4.
…Do you mix gg as they recommend? I used to use more gg than
they recommend ( so I could see it) but I actually think the slip is better when I don’t.
@Matthew g4 is quite specific, requires a very small amount, it’s max is double the recommended.
gg glide can be added to it as preferred.
slip vs residual slip: this is where i see the big difference (re slip). the fact that soap is leaving the residue allows more glide on an already sqeegeed area whereas gg once it’s squeegeed you ain’t goin back!!
that means gg is less forgiving, you must be accurate and keep your overlap of dry glass to a minimum or your going to get drag on the dry parts.
i have been finding this with the windshield washer fluid i have been testing too, no residual slip left at all.
@Strezy that is indeed paranoid, the sds for gg4 is a lot less scary sounding than dawn or ecover.
I’ve tried both.
But I haven’t been satisfied with the slip.
do you mean the slip on completely wet glass or when you have dry overlap?
Get gg glide to assist. Super slick.
You know. The only ingredient that I know of that someone could add to a product at 80-89%, is proprietary, non-hazardous, non-regulated, and doesn’t require a chemical abstract service registry number;…is WATER. So what we might be seeing here guys is one big smoke screen. And ethoxylated alcohols are nonionic surface active agents. I prefer anionics. Of course I am a soap head. But I don’t like filming.
I would say both but especially of course when overlapping, yeah when you fanning. Read the technique advice Titan Labs gives, but I’m not satisfied when I’ve tried it.
So Henry, what do you put in your bucket when you work everyday (except water of course…) Curios. I’ve have a lot of respect for your knowledge.
I simply use Dawn. It is based on two different but similar anionics. Which have a negative charge like glass. The two will repel. Which is my theory as to why anionics leave the least film of all the surfactant families. These anions however are organic. The molecules are built on carbon. So this surf can only reduce the surface tension of water only so much. When you go to a silicon chemistry or even one based on flourine you are able to dramatically reduce the surface tension of the cleaning solution with the least amount of detergent. The Cheetah test product I first developed was an nonionic. So in my opinion it left too much of a film. I am waiting for a sample of a silicon based anionic. This is the one I will be marketing. If you look at the formulas for glass cleaning products they are almost all based on anionics. Would you be interested in trying this surf when I get it in?
The soap I’m using contains following:
Alkyl ether sulfate C12-14, sodium salt
And IT contains 15-30 % anionicssurfactants.
Does that says you anything?
I would really like to try it. Unfortunately I live and work in Sweden, Scandinavia
Your soap looks good. It is based on anionics.
But I have no problem sending anything to Sweden. I would just add up the shipping and send you an email with the amount before I sent it.
Tell me what you are looking for in a cleaning product.
A100 is in the air…
um, i and thousands of window cleaners clean millions of panes a day that sparkel in the sun using dawn or dawn like soaps, let’s not pretend that the 5% more sparkle that gg gives is really that important. we’ve done side by side tests with the two soaps and you can’t tell the difference.